Creating new jazz chord symbols (not editing)

Since Finale announced its closure, I have migrated to Dorico. I’m a high-level musician and a full-time professor at McGill University. However, some chord symbols I frequently use are not available in your program. My colleagues and I, including Jerry Bergonzi, often use symbols like CMaj7(#15), and others.

I found that in your program, you can edit existing chord symbols, but what I’m looking for is a way to create a completely new symbol. Ideally, I’d like to duplicate an existing one, modify it, and keep both versions so that I can simply type it into the score. This was a very useful feature in Finale, and I’ve been asking around about it. Someone suggested I write here because, apparently, you read these comments. So, here it is. Thanks!

Todd, @FredGUnn is the expert user in this field. I’m sure he will chime in when he gets the time.

Jesper

Welcome to the forum, Remi, and welcome to the Dorico user community.

We have certainly heard this request before, and we are going to make this possible as soon as it is practical for us to do so. Despite the fact that Dorico has the most sophisticated support for chord symbols of any music notation software, it turns out that there is always (and perhaps will always be) more that we need to add!

3 Likes

I understand, but I must say that for someone like me, not being able to create custom chords is like telling someone, ‘Oh, we don’t have 16th notes yet.’ It’s such an immediate and important component of the music I write. I guess I’ll keep using Finale a bit longer, check out Sibelius, and keep an eye on whether Dorico is focusing more on jazz notation.

3 Likes

As of today, I can write my music in Finale, but not in Dorico, because of this missing feature. The chords I use seem to be more sophisticated than what the program currently supports

1 Like

Dorico doesn’t have anything like Finale’s Chord Suffix Library where you can create as many chord symbol suffixes as you want. You can however take another chord suffix that you aren’t using in your project and make a global change to it, in order to redefine it to be maj7(#15). I know that’s not what you’re asking for, and I’d love more customization options with chord symbols too, but it’s the only way to get a #15 chord now, other than just calling it a polychord like Dmaj7/Cmaj7, entering it as text, or editing each one manually.

2 Likes

Thanks. I figured that’s what would have to be done.

1 Like

here’s an update on Dorico handling of chord symbols in music parts. I’ve confirmed that when using Dorico, you are limited to the chords provided by their library. While you can edit the appearance of these chords, you cannot create new ones or duplicate existing ones. If you edit a chord, the changes will overwrite the original chord used by the program.

To create a new chord, you need to find an existing chord in the library that you don’t plan to use (by trying different names until you find one, since there is no available list of Dorico’s chords) and rename it. However, when entering this chord into the score, you must still type the old name. For instance, if you select “C(b9)” and rename it to “CMA7(#9,#15),” you will still need to type “C(b9)” in the score. This requires you to remember all these associations.

After editing the chords to your satisfaction, save them as the default and save the project you’re working on. These edited chords will be available in any new projects you create. However, they won’t be available in older projects made before these changes, and there’s no way to import or copy them between projects. So, if you want to use these custom chords in an older project, you’ll need to redo the process or start over.

There are clearly several shortcomings in this approach. This isn’t about making minor improvements; we’re talking about basic functionality that needs to be addressed. I hope Dorico will consider this feedback, rather than just stating, “Despite having the most sophisticated support for chord symbols in any music notation software, there is always more to add!”.

I just discovered something even more frustrating: when you edit a chord symbol, the changes only apply to that specific root. For example, if you modify the “C major 7” chord to your liking, the edited version won’t automatically apply when you enter “D major 7.” You would have to manually edit each chord for all 12 keys, one by one.

Can someone please tell me I’m wrong about this?

1 Like

No, you are not wrong: the edits you make in the Library > Chord Symbols dialog do indeed apply only to the specific complete chord symbol (i.e. combination of root, quality, intervals and alterations) that you are editing.

Depending on the nature of the edit you need to make, you can make edits that will apply everywhere. For example, when you edit a chord symbol in Library > Chord Symbols, and you select a specific component that is part of the chord symbol, you will see in the row of components below the main editing area a number of different appearances for that specific component.

To make a change to that specific component such that it will be reflected in all chord symbols, click the pencil icon in the action bar below the grid of components to edit that component directly. Whatever you change in there will then affect every chord symbol where that component is used.

When I said that Dorico has the most sophisticated support for chord symbols, I was stating a fact – but it’s also the case that despite that sophistication, there are still things that you cannot do. It’s not easy to show a second row of chord symbols for alternate changes, for example. It’s not possible to create an entirely new type of chord symbol that Dorico doesn’t understand. Certain types of edits are more time-consuming than they should be. You cannot define a complete appearance for a chord quality/intervals/alterations in such a way that it will be applied to every root. We are more than aware of these shortcomings, and are working to address them.

2 Likes

You can pull these in using the Library Manager. At the top center where it states “Compare to” just select the file you want to import chords from. Off the top of my head, I’m forgetting exactly where Dorico stores these, but I think they are in the Music Symbols panel on the left hand side. In any case if you import the various Chord Symbol Engraving Options, then also the Chord Symbol options in Collections, plus Music Symbols and maybe Glyph Primitives, then you should have them in the new file I think.

This is a colossal PITA of course. At one point I had hundreds of overrides in my default template, that I had spent hours (days?) editing. I then realized I could accomplish much of this using doricolib files so the edits would apply to all keys, and would be automatically available in all files created from File / New. It’s obviously very advanced and completely undocumented, but if you wanted to post a file that contains the edit you want, I can take a look and see if it would be a candidate for that method.

1 Like

Well. i simply want to edit and create chords that would then be applied to all documents and all keys !. Everything else I needed seems ok. I followed about 30 videos on the app this week.

3 Likes

Hmmm, this is discouraging, this and the left double barrline issue. I’m leaning toward not wasting any more time and using Finale until the ship sinks and using Dorico for some arranging and composing projects where the main concern is playback and audio exporting. I placed blind trust in Dorico because I love Cubase, one of Steinberg’s best apps, but I see now that that was premature.

1 Like

I’m still learning the app, and I hope that with so many musicians switching over from Finale, the issue with chords will be resolved soon—hopefully before they add the 27th articulation for violin or the 6th way to use quarter tones! lol

2 Likes

Some basic suffixes are:
ma, mi, au, di, ma7, mi7, 7#5, 7(9,#11,13), 4\4, #4\4, 1+3, M10, m10, M9, mi7n5, ma7s2, s2, s4, etc…
I need the root font to be Arial 14, the suffixes to be Arial 10 (I need to check that) and the suffixes to be raised a few points so that they are in line with the middle of the root symbol.
Also, I need any polychord combination using any triads or 7th chords and Naus’s superstructures…

@bilo20 You can set the chord symbols to Arial 14. Go to Library, font styles, Chord symbols font.

For the suffixes 10 pt you have to calculate the size from the 14pt so say 72% in engraving options chord symbols, design, scale factor subscript.
Chords.dorico (496.8 KB)
Then you get this.

For me to help it would be most easy if you upload an PDF with the Finale chords, so I can see what you want and how to recreate it in Dorico.

2 Likes

Some of those suffixes are supported now, and some not. Some like “au” and “di” can easily be modified with a global edit.

Stuff like #4\4, m10, etc, just aren’t really possible without manually editing and there’s no way to get those globally without repurposing another suffix you aren’t using in that project.

Polychords work well in Dorico though:

3 Likes