Cubase 12.0.20 maintenance update available

Your assumption about pro tools is not correct. They are fixing bugs in previous releases that customers are using. So the bugs are out there, even now there are more.

You cannot say on the one hand they are excellent at testing their software because they fix bugs, but on the other hand those bugs got through testing without being noticed when first released.

Also you have no idea how long those bugs have been in the software. They do not fix all bugs from previous releases, they are fixing bugs from months ago and years ago and new ones they have just found. but not all of them.

Bug are reported on pro tools forum all the time. I have reported a licensing one not so long ago so I know they are their. But also Avid have a very business like support portal.

Cubase always has a list of bug fixes in it too, every release has them.

What they are doing is much the same as all other DAWs.

Your right that those little things that are broken in their eq should get fixed, that’s a reasonable expectation. I don’t use it so it’s not something I care about but maybe they have bigger fish to fry this year.

Also it might be very difficult to fix issues that seem minor, no one knows that except the coders. It’s not reasonable to say your not a programmer but…….I have customers telling all the time how easy it will be to fix a defect and they are never correct. That’s not to say it’s not easy sometimes but the customers explanation of how they think it works is usually so far from the actual code I wonder why they even try to guess an estimate.

Your right to want things fixed, maybe raise a ticket to ask if it is in the list of future fixes at all.

But I would not use this forum to get something fixed, I would raise tickets. I treat a forum as something I go to after I raised a ticket because I want a work-a-around.

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RTT1 for the most part I agree with you. We own and utilize most major DAWs here at our studio and each of them have their quirks…and bugs…some that have been around a long-time, some new.

The same is true for hardware drivers, plugins and other audio production software.

In my experience the rate which bugs occur, their number and the time needed to squash them has increased over the past few years.

As I have stated previously, I believe the rate of technological change has much to do with this increasing problem. The developers and programmers are dealing with revolutionary changes in processors and other computer hardware and operating systems. Modifying existing complex code to deal with these changes while at the same time adding new “features” demanded by marketing departments to bolster sales and at the same time trying to make their products compatible with all the other software vendor’s products is a monumental task!

I would prefer that all the developers stop adding new “features” and concentrate on bug squashing for at least six months. Adding new “features” to software that is already buggy is not the most beneficial for us users.

I realize that some developers must release point updates to generate income periodically and that most users would not pay for an update without new “features”. I for one, would be willing to pay for a point upgrade that dealt with just bug fixes and compatibility upgrades that did not include any new “features”. More reliable DAWs, plugins, drivers and other audio software is worth paying for in my book.

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Yes I think a lot of this is not so much about adding testers etc, the bugs have been reported already.

It’s about priorities and maybe that is measured by how many users have reported a bug or if the bug has a knock on affect to something more integral. It’s hard to say how they are judged. But for every bug that’s fixed there are some happy users who won’t come to this forum and unhappy ones we will see on here because theirs was not in the new release.

I would like to see a release of just bug fixes but I think in 6 months not enough would get done. There could be 3 months of development work, 1 month of unit test, 1 month of end to end and regression testing and then 1 month of user testing. So really we would get 3 months of bug fixes. It would probably need 12 month to fix enough to satisfy ppl.

But then Steinberg would have to ask users to pay for a major release of just fixes. Some say they would gladly pay for that but a lot of ppl will not. It’s like saying “hey the software is broken and now you get to pay for us to fix it”. That is a very hard sell. If it was released free as an update then Steinberg would forgo update money for almost 2 years. That would include the year the bug fix update is released and then it will not be until the end of the following year until there is a new Cubase version released with new features. That’s a long time with no additional revenue coming in.

I would love to see a pure bug fix major release but I’m just not sure how feasible it would be. I get it that having bugs in something that do not seems to get fixed is not great. But it’s not specific to a Cubase or any particular DAW.

It’s all so complicated, The software, the hardware, everything is in constant flux. Next year there will probably be a whole new raft of CPUs and motherboards with new chipsets and OS’s and then plugins and it all starts again.

I can make a track using a lot of dfferent plugins, I can get by, that’s enough for me right now.

It’s kind of like flying across an ocean, we have forgotten the miracle of powered flight, now we are just angry as hell there are no peanuts left on the flight lol

It’s a miracle we get these DAWs that work at all….of course I would be angry as hell if I was one if the ppl where C12 didn’t work at all. :slight_smile: but I can over look a few things that are not perfect if I have a work around.

A major bug fix release would be nice but I’m not sure it would happen. But that’s just my thoughts on it.

But if they could make it run 30% better on the CPU I would pay a lot for that as an update, no other features needed ! I guess we all have things we want.

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I agree with you that many users believe that bugs and compatibility issues “are the developers fault” and that they should not be paid to fix their mistakes. That thought process is not correct however, many bugs are actually compatibility problems that were not able to be anticipated by the software developer and were not found during testing before release because in the wild there are many more potential compatibility issues.

I am amazed that audio software works as well as it does.

I would be very happy to pay every one of the developers of my audio hardware driver and software developers for a real, comprehensive bug and compatibility update. I would also be willing to pay into a fund to allow all the major players to work together to squash compatibility bugs.

Unfortunately, I may be the only studio owner who would be willing to pay for a pure bug and compatibility update. lol

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For me a developer is a person that do write the code. That does not match your? It is companies that is release their products. And what the developers do and not do is usually not decided by the developers them self. In big companies like steinnberg/yamaha there is often directive from the owner, in this case Yamaha directing Steinberg. Of course not in details. Usually that is sell more. And in Japan that is “add more features”. And looking in to this forums there is a lot of requests for new features! (And everyone expect them to work flawlessly.) And in reality you need to both. New features sell. However bad reputation is killing sales, but the ones that already have bought the software wont buy the same again so it is low priority unless it is so bad that it is giving bad reputation. (And bad reputation is relative to competition. )

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The vast majority of bugs are inherent within the software, they’re not compatibility issues at all.
Look at the wiki which was posted ealier:
Cubase 12.0.20 - Issues Wiki

This desire to focus on fixes comes from the top, it’s only when people start walking away from a product and new customers don’t fill that void will anything be done.

The 12 month cycle of focusing on new features is clearly working for them, or else they wouldn’t be here today.

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There are always a list of bug fixes in every release, it’s not just new features, there is a release document which mentions fixes in every release.

Also there are only 21 fixes on that list and they are NOT from Steinberg. So we have no idea how they manifest themselves. These items need to be confirmed by Steinberg before they can officially be logged as bugs. If they have been then great but it might be that only one person has called out those so they will not get fixed sooner than a bug that has been reported by 2000 ppl. Sometime things that are noted as bugs are simple user error or a misunderstand on how the tool works. So Steinberg have to confirm something is a true bug.

But it has never been just new features, it has always been new features and bug fixes. It’s just that some that ppl treasure more that others do not make the list.

Just to be clear, I’m saying that there’s inherent, repeatable bugs that go unfixed due to the priority placed on developing and testing annual “Saleable” features.

No-one cares what their internal models are, but people do care when there’s bugs over 10 years old still going unfixed in their software. Last few maintenance updates have gone through testing with objective bugs observed on all hardware across both Mac and Win operating systems and it adds to the pile.

I’m a bit sick of it, to be honest. When you use other DAW’s and it runs better, smoother and without pauses in playback you just wonder why you’re sat here waiting several years in the hope that SB will improve or fix something.

The gap in features is practically nothing now, they’ve dined on their past well. But the current generation at SB need to push and innovate as their predecessors did. To me, they’re just falling and stuck in this 12 month sales cycle.

Look at the state of the new licensing, can’t resell it, products like HALion appear to be held back as they want to sell us updates, can’t release a locked machine yourself, yet it’s been hacked almost on release. Monumental balls-up, really.

Saddest part is I was genuinely excited about C12 and the licensing, thinking it was a new era. Now I just feel concern, in all honesty.

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I have C12 running perfectly well on my system. There might be things have yet to find but I am making tracks with it no issue for me. It run fast and it’s better that C11 for me.

Bugs in C11 will not be tested as part of a C12 release unless they are items mapped to be fixed in C12. Ableton do the same, if you point out a bug in their latest beta which is already in the current release version they tell you it’s not a bug in the beta because it’s not part of the release.

I know of NO DAW that doesn’t do exactly the same as Cubase and that doesn’t have similar bugs that are not fixed in a similar way.

But your right about getting things fixed. No one who disagree about that. How to do it is more of the question I guess.

How do you know that Halion will be a paid for upgrade to the new licensing system ? Wavelab was a free upgrade to the new licensing system and Apple Silicon, the same is true to GrooveAgent. Those twos free updates happening in the last 3 weeks. There was also a note included on how codes will be distributed to more to the new licensing from elicense. There was also a server upgrade last week which might well be part of the more for other product.

Runs ‘great’ for me too, but I’ve got to the point where I work around the bugs or just don’t use certain features that fail me - so have become quite indoctrinated in it’s use. :slight_smile:

Like many, I have to avoid or workaround Articulation issues, Variaudio issues, GPU/HiDPI issues, Chord Tracks not writing to tracks correctly, MIDI FX bugs, Split tool bugs, MIDI Remote issues, Plugin windows rendering bugs, Non-continuous audio engine breaking external sync, Application hanging on close, inherently Poor window handling, recently broken pre-set browsing, UI that cutoff… etc.

It’s only when I use another DAW that I realise the amount of concessions I’m having to make. Others like Studio One feel more modern, slick and everything seems a breeze - It shows that some of the original SB team went over there.

I sometimes have to nip myself when I bounce audio in Studio One, use their articulation system, mixer snapshots, integrated pattern editor - it’s just super fluid, and window management is so much better. It feels like a DAW that is ahead of my thinking, if that makes sense?

What holds me on Cubase is because I’ve invested in the eco system, HALion/Groove Agent work far better in SB hosts. And the integration between chord track and variaudio are simply brilliant for vocals.

And as mad as it sounds, Cubase to me, feels like it has a soul that alot of other DAW’s don’t have - despite them performing and feeling better to use, I can feel completely disconnected with them - Studio One a prime example of that. Which is why I pray SB will get Cubase up to scratch!!!

I don’t know, but as an Absolute owner I don’t think we’ll get on the new licensing without waiting 18 months for next paid for update. So that’s my perspective, really.

HALion 7 was shown as an icon on the licensing system screenshots before release, and is overdue a paid update. Groove Agent isn’t a great deal different to SE which had to be compliant for C12 so easier to move across, whereas HALion is quite different to HALion Sonic SE.

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I guess I do not get bothered about the small stuff when I have 3rd party plugins that are far better than anything in Cubase.

But if someone is trying to use the DAW plugins then they might well be put out by it.

I come from a generation where you bought 3rd party plugins because stock plugins where never as good. That might have changed over the years but, except Ableton, I don’t use the items in a DAW when I have a plug-in that will do it better, Auto Tune Pro and Melodyne.

I get upset if it crashes of course but I own Pro Tool, Ableton, Luna, Cubase and Logic (not used logic that much). For me Cubase doesn’t crash or stop working anymore than any of those on my Mac. It runs very well.

But there are list of bugs on other DAWs too. Cubase is not unique in that aspect, maybe Studio One is.

When you lose the trust, it is very hard to get it back.

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“Dorico 4 will be followed later in 2022 by major releases for Cubase, Nuendo and HALion, each of which will also use the new system.” This is from a blog entry by Steinberg’s Daniel Spreadbury, announcing Steinberg Licensing and its effect on the (then still to be released) Dorico 4. It seems fairly clear that HALion 7 is on the way, which will be a paid update.

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Then perhaps be mindful when telling people that a software suite works perfectly well for you, when you’re only using a small proportion of it, not to mention being unbothered about ‘small stuff’ working effectively or not.

Cubase is unique in it’s legacy, and therefore core foundations are antiquated compared to the competition. It hasn’t the modern codebase and slickness of most competing DAWs, which are able to push innovative features as the space is available to them.

Newer staff most likely lack the knowledge and tools to efficiently bug fix or improve older areas of the software. Hence why much is bolted on to the underlying tech to provide saleable features every 12 months.

Trouble is, when you bolt on top and users establish those features into their workflow it adds a whole new level of complications and limits the change to core foundations, and control of bugs gets out of hand.

New DAW’s just have better revision and bug control because they are not having to manage or service such legacy. Look what Cockos achieve with Reaper, and there’s like 2 developers who work on that. Studio One apparently took much of the talent and ideas from the Steinberg when it started to establish itself. Bitwig, likewise, had Ableton developers start a new project.

So yes, Cubase is unique in my eyes - it’s why I use it. After using other DAWs I’m convinced that the clunkiness and quirks are part of the charm, in fact! But am concerned, particularly that the new licensing has failed in regards to securing their assets - with the bugs I think people will be more tempted to ‘try’ before they buy, and may not transform into paying customers.

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We own all of those DAWs (except Ableton) as well. Each one has their own issues but some have more than their share, However, I still contend that many “bugs” are based on compatibility with new OSs, new processors, plugins from various vendors that do not play well together and with various DAWs, and also, user error. If the developers would concentrate on compatibility and bug fixing within the industry as a whole for a development cycle many long-term and new additions coukd be stamped-out. Unfortunately, new features create revenue and bug fixes do not.

Studio One has been started by former Steinberg employees. Studio One is more efficient in terms of hardware requirements, feels smoother, is more user friendly, have less intrusive bugs and receives more frequent (free) updates for both fixes and new content.

EFNOTE has been started by former Roland employees. EFNOTE e-drums kits are better than Roland’s in many ways : Bigger pads, multiple sensors on every pad for better triggering and no hot-spot, including 360° playable hats and cymbals, hi-hat and cymbals movements are extremely realistic, and the module has less sounds but they are much more realistic than Roland’s.

That tells one thing : Those developers were limited by the company they were working at. Once they left, they have understood what was wrong in those companies “guidelines”, and decided not to reproduce that. They unleashed their full potential because they were free.

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You no nothing about what your talking about. You have no idea about the code base or how it works, you full of guess work and totally rubbish.

I’ve been using Cubase for 30 years, since my Atari ST. I have had nearly every version and I have used others at the sane time, including Octamed, Reason, then Pro Tools, then Ableton.

Don’t you dare tell me I’m only using a small part of the product. My projects include multiply synths and samplers, external effects and input recordings and average about 100 tracks a piece. I just don’t get hung up on thing when I can find other ways to do things, I would if I could not use the DAW as a whole or it was so broken I cannot make a track.

As I said, I use multiple DAWs and the only thing I do not use is Cubase plugins, I have about 500 plugins so, to me, Cubase does really have any plugins worth using and that is a very small part of the product anyway.

Stop prattling on with your utter incompetent guess work about Cubase code, their testing, how it works. You no nothing about coding, and nothing about the technical side of Cubase, stop pretending you do, you do not !.

My complaint is your constant calling Cubase out as being different to other DAWs for bugs, in my experience of the 5 other DAWs I use, Cubase is the same as the rest.

You seem to have found another DAW your in love with so go use it.

If you like Studio One so much go use it and stop using Cubase and stop pretending you know stuff you don’t. Your all guess work and moaning.

Everyone complains about bugs they find, bugs are annoying, but trying to pretend that Cubase is somehow unique and full of bugs that never get fixed while other DAWs are somehow perfect is just not true.

Yes and I looked at that software too but it turns out it does then work as well as Cubase in project of my side so I gave it a miss.

That was something there seemed to be some agreement about, it’s good but it’s not as efficient once the projects get over a destination size.

But once Studio One gets a larger user base it will end up with the same bugs as the rest.

Thank you, evidence based information about a product. Something so very lacking in this thread.

I’m waiting for the Halion update so fingers caressed the new version arrives soon. I suspected the other guy was totally guess about having to pay for Halion as a guess, another excuse to moan about Cubase, and I was correct lol but it’s also true by the looks of it.

Thanks for the update that it really us going to be a paid update chap. I’m cool with it though, something you pay for, some are free like Wavelab. Swings and roundabouts,

Now you are reacting with “fan boy” mentality. There are issues with all software by all vendors to varying extents. However, as long as vendors believe that the majority of users would be happier with a “new features” development cycle emphasis rather than a “stability and bug fix” emphasis, that is what they will do. Only through a large portion of the user base stating that they would prefer a stability and bug fix upgrade (that they would be willing to pay for), will the development cycle emphasis change.

You may be pleased with the state of Cubase development as it is…with work-arounds needed to fully use the software, but many aren’t and their voices are just as valid as yours. So, stop the bulling of people who don’t agree with your point of view and be more respectful. There is no place on a user forum for that attitude.