I’m posting this in the lounge because I just wondered if anyone else has experienced this. I don’t know what caused it and I can’t recreate it… I’m using Cubase 12 Professional on a Mac Studio running Ventura.
I’m editing and mixing an album for someone (I’m a long time Cubase user but it’s only the 5th time I’ve done this sort of thing) and have been sending mixdowns to him for comments, then I adjust the songs to suit his requests, then we move on to the next one. I’m still learning, and I am also expecting to go through these again at the end to make final adjustments before sending to a friend for mastering.
This has been working quite well - I’m enjoying the process and he seems to like what I do to his tracks.
I send him a rough mix (before reverb effects and panning) so we can check that I have got everything in the song that he wanted, then I do a mix where I try to get a bit more creative and make it all sound lovely.
For this particular song he realised at this first stage that there was something really wrong with the lead vocal, so he asked if he could send another. I’m using this all as a learning opportunity so I’m happy with him doing this. He sent a new vocal a week or so later and I then started the “proper” mix.
When I sent him my latest mix for his comments, he said that it was really quiet compared to the previous one. When I listened to the exported files that I had sent him (I upload them to his Google Drive), there was indeed a huge difference in volume (like 10dB) and he preferred the first one but of course it had the wrong vocal on it.
I save new versions of the cpr files each time I make any edits, so I am able to open the same project that created the early mixdown and the current version and the two songs sound very similar in volume. If I export them to a wav again the volumes stay comparable. I can’t see what I could have done on that original export to create such a loud file without intentionally doing it.
Is it possible that the file can get corrupted somehow on export so the volume is louder? Or have I just done something really stupid when I did the first export and then (even more stupidly) completely forgotten that I’d done it?
Hi @raino, no I’m not using Control Room, but I think I know what you’re suggesting and believe you have led me towards the answer.
My room sounds awful so for the last few months I have been using the Steven Slate VSX plugin and headphones which mean I hear a more accurate representation of my mixes. I think it works very well. I knew it did something to the gain of the project - I think this is to give itself the headroom needed to emulate the various spaces/environments.
I realised today that if I export with this plugin disabled using the Bypass Insert switch, or turn the plugin off (neither of which are recommended by Steven Slate), the export is much louder than when the plugin manages the export itself.
So either I accidentally disabled the plugin (very possible) or it had a hiccup in that export and somehow pushed it all out at full volume.
This is only the second project where I’ve used the VSX so it’s in that perfect window where I think I know what I’m doing but clearly have more to learn!
Correction plugins such as VSX are easier to manage if you use Control Room in Cubase and insert the plugin in a Control Room insert slot. This makes it possible to use said plugin on only one output bus (such as your headphone output e.g. and have your monitors/speakers unaffected).
If you do not use the Control Room feature in Cubase and instead insert the VSX plugin on your Stereo Out bus, the plugin should be disabled before any export.
Make sure the signal on your Stereo Out does not clip (with the VSX plugin disabled) before exporting.
For clarity…It’s critical to understand that you must have it disabled on export…you definitely do not want to export with the VSX room sound or the headphone correction curve baked in. It’s for monitoring only. The recommendation to only use the bypass in the plug is while mixing only…not for export. There is an auto bypass on export but putting the plug in control room negates that needing to work. (and tbh I don’t completely trust it as have experienced it not to work before)
Thanks @mlib - I’d looked at Control Room but not seen a use for it for my setup as up until I started using VSX I only had one set of monitors. What you say makes a lot of sense and I think I’ll take a look at that
BlockquoteIf you do not use the Control Room feature in Cubase and instead insert the VSX plugin on your Stereo Out bus, the plugin should be disabled before any export.
VSX is set to automatically bypass before export but the level is still dropped. Something I didn’t really notice until this occasion where the export was super loud - either because something went wrong or I disabled it somehow.
Blockquote There is an auto bypass on export but putting the plug in control room negates that needing to work. (and tbh I don’t completely trust it as have experienced it not to work before
@Grim You replied while I was writing the above! Yes, this backs up what I’ve been thinking. I think this is another vote for setting up my projects to use Control Room and putting the VSX plugin there instead of the Stereo Out bus.
@Grim and @mlib - thanks again both of you for your advice.
I’ve set up Control Room and put VSX in there and suddenly everything about this makes so much more sense. The Stereo Out meters levels are higher and the exports sound exactly the same whether the VSX plugin is switched on or not showing that the exports are definitely not going through the plugin, so I’m hearing VSX when I’m creating the mix, but exporting the finished track without it.
This is a common misconception folks have about the Control Room - that it’s only useful if you need features it provides like multiple monitors, loudness meters, room correction, etc. But even if you don’t use any of that or have a super-simple setup it still makes lots of sense to use the Control Room.
When you use the CR it functionally separates out your listening & recording environments. Stereo Out controls the level that gets exported in your mix and the CR controls the level sent to your monitors. Just having these two independent controls is worth using CR.
I think I always assumed I needed to listen to the same output that the exports were being made from. Also, for me at least, Control Room wasn’t particularly intuitive to set up. I tried a couple of times over the years and just gave up.
Maybe this is just me, and/or because I’m getting older, but with a lot of DAW/plugin instructions (not just Steinberg products) I often find terminology used a bit difficult to follow, and when it doesn’t immediately fall into place there’s a point where you think “it’s working as it is, I’ll just leave it alone.”
Now I’m using the VSX there was obviously a clear point to figuring it out (and in the end it wasn’t even that difficult) so I’m glad I persevered.
