Cubase and Nuendo Support for Linux

[mashipx]

Hi all.

I thinking with the current events regarding microsoft, the state of windows 11 and the leaked doc about making windows 12 sub based, it might be a wise decision to port cubase and sibling products to linux. A lot of large global businesses are migrating to linux or osx after losing faith in microsoft as a brand and forcing users to upgrade hardware and pay for perpetual liscencing. Obviously it would mean that vst creators would have to port over too. but cubase has more than enough creative content and plugins to stand on its own until developers catch up. If the current trend of users migrating carries liike it has since august last year, it could be possible that windows loses its position of being the major OS world wide. There are at least 2 or 3 good linux distros available now giving the windows user a familiar look and feel. The geek badge is no longer needed to install and use linux. personally id be happy to try a linux cubase port if it means having a less resource hungry OS and like OSX (which originally came from linux) a more stable cubase.

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

Please, add the optional feature-request tag to your post, or support the other feature-request with this topic here on the forum.

[awesomeaudio]

Already a huge topic here, your opinion will be of more value bumping/voting in that thread than creating a new one here.

Cubase and Nuendo Support for Linux - Cubase - Steinberg Forums

[steve]

(Topics merged)

[mashipx]

thx pal

[KT66]

@mashipx

I thinking with the current events regarding microsoft

What current events regarding Microsoft?

@mashipx

the state of windows 11

What’s wrong with Windows 11?

@mashipx

leaked doc about making windows 12 sub based

There is no leaked doc about a Windows 12 subscription.

@mashipx

A lot of large global businesses are migrating to linux or osx after losing faith in microsoft as a brand

No, they aren’t. Not on desktops anyway.

@mashipx

If the current trend of users migrating carries liike it has since august last year, it could be possible that windows loses its position of being the major OS world wide.

This is serious wishful thinking.

Look, I get that some people just want to use Linux and I have no beef with that desire. I do, however, object to the outright dishonesty that some people employ to reinforce their argument. If Linux is a viable platform for DAW use then the arguments showing it in a positive light should be sufficient without resorting to hyperbolic nonsense.

[awesomeaudio]

It’s a bit more complicated than just 3rd party plugins porting to Linux

ASIO ← → Linux

ASIO Linux (or equivalent) ← → AD/DA/Interface Manufacturers

VST 3.0 ← → Linux

Plugin Frameworks ← → Linux

MIDI 2.0 ← → Linux

MIDI 2.0 Hardware Developers ← → Linux

Almost all of these facets have two-way development cooperation… and human cooperation is the most difficult aspect… Everyone has to want to invest the time/money.

And then it’s not just Cubase. The entire Steinberg product line is an eco system that works together - Dorico, Wavelab, Halion, Spectralayers, etc

[Sebastian_Alvarez]

@vncvr

I would ditch Windows instantly, sort of not happy with its direction and lack of reduced engineering version of the OS. They’ve become more like Apple.

Not to defend Apple, but you’re wrong. Microsoft is far worse than Apple. As someone who has had plenty of Windows PCs and Macs for the past 30 years, there is no contest. macOS is a far superior OS to Windows, but if we’re just talking about the policies of both companies, Apple are saints compared to Microsoft.

I’ll give you one example. While both companies have their own version of an cloud based drive, iCloud is almost flawless and Onedrive is absolute garbage. It’s been nothing but headaches whether it’s been for my personal use, or for companies I worked for.

However, Apple doesn’t force you to use iCloud, while Microsoft forces you to use Onedrive all the freaking time. Windows is far less secure than macOS, not because far more people use it, but because with macOS, you always use local accounts. iCloud is just an additional program, where you can choose to sync certain folders with the cloud or not, but when you install macOS, or turn on a Mac for the first time, you always have to create a local account. Then IF you want, you can sign in to your iCloud account, but it’s not mandatory, and you don’t get constant reminders to sign in to it all the freaking time like in Windows.

Microsoft used to give the choice to have either a local account or a cloud account. That was like ten years ago. Then at one point they still supported local accounts but with very convoluted workarounds. Then it became even more convoluted year after year, to the point where you had to hack it, and for what I gather lately, local accounts are next to impossible now.

That is extremely dangerous since having the same account for both your local machine than for your Microsoft 365/Onedrive cloud account means that if there’s a leak of your Microsoft credentials, they can also login to your machine. Sure, it’s not something everybody can do, but many hackers know how. This is especially dangerous since in my experience, password leaks of Microsoft accounts are far more common than anything Apple.

I’ll give you another example. Since I went back to using a PC a year ago because with current Macs you can’t just add more RAM. Unlike Apple, Microsoft doesn’t give include an office suite with the OS, so I started using Libre Office. But I didn’t like it, and the pitiful 5 GB Microsoft gives you for the free Onedrive account was getting full all the time, because even if you choose not to sync documents, Windows still has the path to the user’s Documents folder set to the one in the Onedrive folder, so a lot of programs and plugins write to that folder, filling it up really fast.

So a few months after I built my machine, I decided to bite the bullet and get the Microsoft 365 subscription. Before this, every time I used Microsoft Word and Excel, I would save the document I was working on in any folder I wanted, and autosave was always enabled.

But now, in a move that is downright despicable, Microsoft crippled the Office suite so you can’t have autosave unless you save the document somewhere inside the Onedrive folder. So if you are working on a Word document that is, for example, copyrighted material, top secret, or whatever it may be that you don’t feel comfortable syncing with the cloud, you can’t have autosave. Honestly, I’m really considering stopping my subscription because of that. I’ve never seen a move so despicable from any software company in my whole life. Because we know that there is just no technical reason for it. For decades you could save your document anywhere and have autosave enabled for it. Now, you are forced to sync it with Onedrive if you want autosave. Soon enough, you won’t even be allowed to even save it outside of your Onedrive folder. Forced sync so stupid Copilot can learn more and more about you.

So don’t say Microsoft is becoming Apple. It would actually be great if they were like Apple, and Apple is far from perfect, but using macOS doesn’t force you to put up with stupid ads and when you use Apple Pages or Numbers, you’re not forced to save to iCloud if you want autosave.

Now, clearly Linux is the best option if Steinberg ports their software to Linux. There are three great distros that anyone can use with the same basic amount of computer knowledge they have using macOS and Windows. There’s Linux Mint, Ubuntu, and my favorite, Zorin OS. All three are very user friendly, hardly require the Terminal, and if it does, it’s a matter of copying and pasting a command, same way we do on Windows and macOS so many times.

And Linux has a much longer useful life than either Windows or macOS. Windows 11 can’t be installed on computers without TPM 2.0, so nothing before 2017 at best, and while it’s very easy to overcome that requirement if you do a simple online search and create a custom USB installer, it’s still unsupported on older machines. And Apple, well, even without the move from Intel to ARM, Apple doesn’t support macOS for more than 5-6 years, so you always end up with an obsolete machine.

With these Linux distros, you can give new life to older machines that you paid good money for. My old 2015 Macbook Pro with 16 GB of RAM that I paid $2,500 was forgotten by Apple around 2020-21, at least not without a hack. But I wiped it clean and installed Zorin OS on it, it’s a speeding bullet. It has an NVMe that boots up the OS in about 15 seconds. And I know that machine is going to work fine for years with Zorin OS, while neither macOS nor Windows support it anymore.

So Linux is clearly the future. Not longer a nerd or geek OS that you need to know 10,000 terminal commands to use, it’s cleaner and easier to use than the other two main OSes. Once people start realizing that, there’s no going back.

[wavefunktion]

I would switch to linux instantly if the DAW and all of the VSTs that I use supported it.

[uarte]

@Sebastian_Alvarez

…There’s Linux Mint, Ubuntu, and my favorite, Zorin OS. All three are very user friendly, hardly require the Terminal, and if it does, it’s a matter of copying and pasting a command, same way we do on Windows and macOS so many times.

And Linux has a much longer useful life than either Windows or macOS. Windows 11 can’t be installed on computers without TPM 2.0, so nothing before 2017 at best, and while it’s very easy to overcome that requirement if you do a simple online search and create a custom USB installer, it’s still unsupported on older machines. And Apple, well, even without the move from Intel to ARM, Apple doesn’t support macOS for more than 5-6 years, so you always end up with an obsolete machine.

With these Linux distros, you can give new life to older machines that you paid good money for. My old 2015 Macbook Pro with 16 GB of RAM that I paid $2,500 was forgotten by Apple around 2020-21, at least not without a hack. But I wiped it clean and installed Zorin OS on it, it’s a speeding bullet….

I don’t want to quibble over some of your comments in the earlier part of your post about Windows vs MacOS, yadda yadda, that will be snorefest exchange, off topic, and we’ll both walk away with different opinions anyway, SO let’s set that aside because what you said in the quote ABOVE is exactly right, I agree entirely with that quoted stuff, and bravo for comments like this.

You’ve identified sort of a moral, ethical basis for Linux too… the idea that you have a perfectly good old 2015 Macbook Pro that is still working fine, but it has been ABANDONED to the junk pile of history by BOTH Apple and Microsoft, when it’s still a TOTALLY USABLE machine today in 2026. That’s a shame IMO.

And you can breathe new life into it with Linux, easy, no stress, no problems, which you obviously have done with Zorin OS (which is great, my fav is still Linux Mint!), and it’s awesome! Cheers to you, and this really emphasizes a compelling ethical reason that Yamaha and Steinberg should consider developing for Linux. There’s a VALUE even to how Linux approaches old hardware that is worthy of consideration.

In my studio, while I currently still use Windows for various reasons (again, let’s not go there with the Mac vs PC thing), I also have a bunch of Linux machines, including the one I’m typing on right now. This particular machine is a great little box running a quasi-old Intel i7-7700 from 2016 with 32GB RAM and fast NVMe storage, running Linux Mint, and it is STABLE AS A ROCK, boots and runs faster than much more recent Windows machines I have, and has ZERO problems. It just keeps going and going. I will accept that one day it will die, but that day is not today! Go Linux! Why not keep it going if it is useful?

Come on Steinberg and Yamaha! Do the right thing!

I’ve got a bunch of older machines like this and Linux has SAVED them. And actually INCREASED the real-world perceived performance of them compared to running the OS they were originally designed for. They’ve still got years left of reliable service and perform just fine. I even give them away to family members and they’re still working perfectly for them. I recycle them as Linux file servers in the studio too, and so forth.

So I’m with you and I appreciate your comments about keeping your expensive old Mac alive… it’s still a good machine! Great keyboard, great build, great screen, what a shame to get rid of it! Glad you kept it around and gave it new life.

I too wish I could get off the hamster wheel of big corporate OSes, but for now I need Steinberg and a few other developers so I have to keep one foot planted in the world of Windows… but I still dream of a Linux future.

[uarte]

@wavefunktion

I would switch to linux instantly if the DAW and all of the VSTs that I use supported it

Ditto. I have tried many times (as I’ve probably mentioned in this thread ), and I’ve gotten CLOSE to it… WINE is immensely useful for many plugins, but I still need Steinberg, which I could not get working with WINE, plus a number of other key apps. But I agree entirely, if Steinberg made the leap of faith of Linux, I’d be right there with them 100%.

[wavefunktion]

I would prefer native linux support though and to avoid messing around with WINE altogether. I’m curious to ask you though, do most VSTs tend to work with WINE without issue ?

[uarte]

@wavefunktion

I would prefer native linux support though and to avoid messing around with WINE altogether.

Agreed. But it’s not as bad as you might think.

@wavefunktion

I’m curious to ask you though, do most VSTs tend to work with WINE without issue

There’s a long answer and a short answer to this, lol.

I’ll give the medium answer.

In my experience, there are three main factors that determine the % likelihood/chance of a Windows VST plugin running on Linux with Wine. They include the following:

1 - If the plugin uses complex copy protection, license management, or DRM, chances go down significantly.

2 - What application programming framework(s) the developer used (and BTW, most use some version of JUCE) is important in some edge cases.

3 - What version of WINE + Yabridge you are running (and there are other things besides Yabridge, but I had more success with Yabridge overall) has an impact, although this is the least impactful at this point, since it’s pretty stable actually. But keep an eye on this because it does change from time to time.

Given those three main factors above, in my experience, you can fairly easily predict which ones will NOT work just by looking at factor 1 - complex copy protection, license management, or DRM. For example, Steinberg has an advanced, proprietary license management system that I could NOT get working on Linux with Wine, etc. Maybe someone else has pulled this off, but not me. Also, things like iLok do NOT work, as of the last time I tested. That kills a bunch of plugins I want to use on Linux, sadly.

There are exceptions to this, but it’s an uphill battle when it comes to item 1. And that knocks out MANY of the big-name developers which have advanced license management. (I did get an older version of Kontakt running BTW, but not the new version, for example. And I need the new version!)

As for 2, the application programming framework(s) used, that has an impact too, but not as major as 1. Especially in-house application programming frameworks, which may give you trouble with graphics or some other little glitches or issues that Wine doesn’t handle well. So that knocks out some there too, but not a huge number.

As for 3, keep in mind that WINE and Yabridge are moving targets, as they get improvements that may increase compatibility (but also occasionally BREAK compatibility so watch out!). So over time, it tends to get better… over time, we may be able to handle more complex licensing systems in general. That’s why I will continue to test again maybe in another year or so, just to see where we are.

So having said all that, it may make you think it’s a TERRIBLE situation. But the fact is, once you eliminate the “big developers” with fancy copy protection, there are still a TON of really great smaller developers that have empirically EXCELLENT plugins, and I was quite shocked to find out how many of them work just fine with Wine and Yabridge! It’s pretty awesome!

In fact, I got SOOOOOO close to making the leap that it really came down to a handful of heavy hitters that were missing for me. For example, I need things like the latest Native Instruments, UVI, and of course Steinberg… plus some key post production plugins…. all those things I could NOT get working due to their license management, at least as of the last time I tried. (I’ll try again in the future of course!)

BUT if I was satisfied only with Reaper and Bitwig (which I do keep around and run on Linux, and they run natively really well!), and the list of native plugins listed here ( https://linuxdaw.org/ is a great resource, check it out, there are awesome ones there!), plus some other key smaller Windows plugins from some developers I love running fine in Wine/Yabridge, I could have already made the switch to Linux. I almost made it….

I was SOOOO SOOOO close it hurts. But I needed these other tools/plugins and my huge libraries that run in Kontakt and UVI, and so I have to keep Windows around for now.

SO if you don’t need things like that, you may be very surprised how good the situation actually is. Many plugins work just fine in Wine/Yabridge and were totally seamless in the experience with Reaper on Linux, for example.

But again, there are so many factors, that you have to do the tests yourself, on your hardware, with your preferred distro, with your plugins, your projects, etc… you have to take the time to confirm what works… and be prepared that things DO change… a developer could change their framework, add/change licensing code, or even Wine could have an update that causes something weird to happen (it’s rare, but I’ve seen it.)

But if you’re willing to accept that, the truth is, that Linux is a TOTALLY viable platform for pro work RIGHT NOW, and it’s pretty darn good. BUT you can’t use Steinberg DAWs as of the last time I tried, and some of the big name brand plugins.

Hope that helps.

Now if Steinberg supported Linux, and I could dump Native Instruments and UVI (which I have considered!), then I would switch immediately.

[wavefunktion]

I appreciate your detailed response. However some of the points you mention is exactly why I can’t be bothered to make the switch until everything that I use supports linux natively. I simply don’t want to deal with anymore issues lol.

If all of the VSTs that I used natively supported linux I would just switch to using Bitwig as my main DAW right now.

I just hope that over time more developers start to adopt and support linux natively because Microsoft Windows just keeps getting worse. I would love to remove Windows out of my life.

[uarte]

@wavefunktion

I appreciate your detailed response. However some of the points you mention is exactly why I can’t be bothered to make the switch until everything that I use supports linux natively.

Totally understandable. Keep an eye on https://linuxdaw.org/ as that site currently keeps a pretty updated list of plugins that are NATIVE. I have seen a slow uptick of developers supporting Linux, have personally been in touch with various developers not listed yet, and there is some hope. But it will take time. But yes, if you need some specific plugins that are not yet native, there is a risk, based on the three factors I listed above that may hold you back.

The good news is that Linux pro audio is not some pipe dream and wishful thinking anymore. If I were starting over from scratch, and didn’t already have an investment in my current main apps and plugins, I could easily start from zero with Reaper and Bitwig, plus the plugins at https://linuxdaw.org/

And just keep in mind we’ll never get what we hope for unless we at least ASK Steinberg to consider it. It may never happen, but it doesn’t hurt to ask, and keep the awareness going. One day….

Cheers!

[uarte]

And BTW, here is a list of several developers that currently support Linux NATIVELY to one degree or another (taken from the link I posted above). Some of them are very good indeed, and I have tested (and bought) a bunch of them. This does NOT include other developers that run fine in Wine/Yabridge.

• ACMT
• AP Mastering
• ASAP
• Auburn Sounds
• Audio Assult
• Audio Blast
• Audio Damage
• AudioThing
• Bertom Audio
• blepfx
• Bom Shank Machines
• C.H.A.I.R.
• Calf Studio Gear
• Chowdhury DSP
• Cut Through Recordings
• Darkplace Studio
• DDMF
• discoDSP
• GuitarML
• GVST
• Hermann
• HY-Plugins
• InPhonik
• Kazrog
• Linux Studio Plugins
• Loomer
• n-Track
• Nakst
• Plogue
• Punk Labs
• ReplicatAudio
• Sinevibes
• Smao Audio
• SocaLabs
• SuperflyDSP
• TAL Software
• Ternar Music Technology
• The Usual Suspects
• TiagoLr
• Toneboosters
• TonLib
• Tracktion
• u-he
• UnplugRed
• Venomode
• Wasted Audio
• White Elephant Audio
• x42

And the list doesn’t include DAW developers like Cockos (Reaper), Bitwig, Renoise, Harrison (Mixbus), and so forth…. I hesitate to list Presonus/Fender because I’m highly skeptical Fender Studio Pro (aka Studio One) will actually ever get out of beta… but I hope I’m wrong about that.

[awesomeaudio]

@Sebastian_Alvarez

Not to defend Apple, but you’re wrong. Microsoft is far worse than Apple. As someone who has had plenty of Windows PCs and Macs for the past 30 years, there is no contest. macOS is a far superior OS to Windows, but if we’re just talking about the policies of both companies, Apple are saints compared to Microsoft.

I’ll give you one example. While both companies have their own version of an cloud based drive, iCloud is almost flawless and Onedrive is absolute garbage. It’s been nothing but headaches whether it’s been for my personal use, or for companies I worked for.

In the context of professional engineering, definitely disagree.

I was using Windows 7 up till a few years ago, it worked flawlessly and could run Cubase SX3 and even Cubase 11 if you dragged the Steinberg program files over from a Win10 machine. I could run other older apps as well from Windows XP and prior, and in many cases still can. That’s over 15 years of backwards and forwards compatibility… Whereas it seems Apple breaks compatibility every couples years.

I remember what, nearly 20 years ago in Audio Engineering school, the studio needed to upgrade their pro-tools systems and Mac OS and it broke everything, student mboxes no longer worked - it caused a lot of downtime and headaches.

Apple is a great consumer product, and that’s the only reason it became popular in studios - engineers moving from tape machine who knew nothing about computers. But there’s a reason for example, the Neve Genysys Black runs on Windows 7.

I’ve never really had a compatibility issue ever with Windows… Old hardware new OS, Old OS new hardware, etc.

Could care less about OneDrive/iCloud… The other stuff you list is just a matter of customization and security.

@Sebastian_Alvarez

I’ll give you another example. Since I went back to using a PC a year ago because with current Macs you can’t just add more RAM. Unlike Apple, Microsoft doesn’t give include an office suite with the OS, so I started using Libre Office. But I didn’t like it,

Mhm.

@Sebastian_Alvarez

pitiful 5 GB Microsoft gives you for the free Onedrive account was getting full all the time, because even if you choose not to sync documents, Windows still has the path to the user’s Documents folder set to the one in the Onedrive folder, so a lot of programs and plugins write to that folder, filling it up really fast.

These are consumer products. Anyone running a serious operation is using 3rd party software - of which there is plenty to choose from for Windows whether for a one man business or a multi-national corporation.

Not to mention, a plethora of free software - like Bulk Rename Utility.

All I see is people swearing by how Macs are the professional computer to use, and then see nothing but them crumbling under downtime from update issues, having to ditch their hardware investments, get entire new machines instead of upgrading parts, etc, etc. My former Windows 7 machine, which I still use and am now running as a slave - I bought old no longer sold used parts off Ebay to max it out 10 or 15 years later - flawless.

Apple/mac osx is incredibly annoying platform to engineer with.

[awesomeaudio]

@uarte

And BTW, here is a list of several developers

Only one of my lesser used developers on that list

There really needs to be an organization such as AES that pushes Linux forward.

[JuergenP]

@KT66

@mashipx

A lot of large global businesses are migrating to linux or osx after losing faith in microsoft as a brand

No, they aren’t. Not on desktops anyway

Yes there are.

Just two examples: The city of Munich is running Linux Desktops and the state of Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) has just replaced Microsoft completely.

[mlib]

Although both interesting and exciting, I wouldn’t call the city of Munich nor Schleswig-Holstein large global businesses.
Also, wasn’t the LiMux experiment reverted in 2017?