Cubase from non-"C:/" drive? Backing up the Hard Drive ...

Hi -

I’m backup imaging my hard drives to USB-connected external drives. I’d like to test the backup by running Cubase from the external drive, which is the “G:/” drive, as it turns out.

Does anyone know, when opening/initializing Cubase, is it possible to direct it to open from the G:/ drive, instead of the C:drive?

Thanks in advance!

Bump, thanks!

If it’s a backup, you can’t test it in place. You’d have to restore it to a separate partition somewhere, and then try to run it from there. On the other hand, if you made a copy of the Steinberg folder on your G drive, just open that folder and run the Cubase executable. It should start right up. FWIW, I’ve never seen or heard of backup software that failed a backup operation.

Thanks, Peregrine, I will try to do what you suggest - I like that about putting a copy of the Steinberg folder on the G drive.

Come to think of it, it seems there are, by memory, about 60 billion “Steinberg folders” in my computer: C:/Program Files, C:/…Documents and Settings, etc. Instead of copying a folder over, do you think it would be reasonable to install Cubase on the G drive (which is actually a USB-HDD)? I wonder if it would recognize the dongle plugged into the back of my computer, or if only the C:/ drive does that …

This is my first backup, so I’m kind of just crawling from step to step, I appreciate your help. Re: backups never not working … some people over on the Paragon forum and elsewhere are pretty consistent in saying it’s not a successful backup until it’s been tested. Me, I have no independent ideas about it at all … it’s nice to hear there’s another side to things!

Thanks again -

Listen, save yourself some major grief down the line & DO NOT install Cubase on anything other than your system drive, This has been spoken about before, and for many reasons big * small you will finally run into headaches & grief.

ALTHOUGH when you set it up a program allows you to choose a destination drive to install onto, it shouldn’t REALLY matter if that drive is C:, your Windows drive, or some other hard drive internal or external. For the most part they’re all just drives, and the fact that the setup program gives you the option means there shouldn’t be an issue. but I beg to differ concerning cubase, AND STICK WITH THE SYSTEM DRIVE.

For the record, if any setup programs doesn’t give you a choice then it may be an issue and I’d avoid trying to circumvent it.

Now, many external drives are removable. USB drives, for example, can be removed from your computer either while it’s not running, or after clicking a “safely remove hardware” for the device. In the later case, if a program on your removable drive is running, “safely remove” may fail. All files on the external drive must not be in use, and a program running from the drive is definitely “in use”. You’ll need to make sure that all programs installed on the external drive are shut down before attempting to remove the drive.

Now, that sounds simple enough but more complex packages often install software that runs automatically when you start your machine, either in the form of explicit start-up menu items, or as system services. You may not think you’re running any software that’s installed on that external drive, but in reality it may have installed something that is. You’ll need to figure out what that is, and take steps to disable it, or shut it down before you remove the drive.
“You’ll need to make sure that all programs installed on the external drive are shut down before attempting to remove the drive.”

and for example Synop.sys process or others maybe running on startup,and you may have problems when your drive isnt recognised/booted up, before the service looks for the exe.

Along those same lines, if the drive is not installed when you boot your system, you may get error messages on start up if a prior installation of software onto that drive also added startup items. Without the drive installed, those startup items may not be found, and errors may result. Menu items and shortcuts relating to the software installed on the external drive may also revert to Windows defaults until some time after the drive is reinstalled.

Finally, don’t expect application portability by installing it to an external drive. By that I mean that installing an application to an external drive, and then taking that drive to a different computer and expecting the application to work on that machine. This may work for simpler applications, but setting up a complex application is as much about setting up the Windows registry as it is about just placing files. The registry will have only been set up on the first machine. Theoretically it might be possible to set up the software on machine A, then set it up again on machine B if the drive letters are identical, but I’d expect that to be highly error prone. It’s also quite possibly against many applications licenses or terms of use since you’re technically installing it on two machines.

So there are a number of issues related to removable media, but if you’re just installing your software to a second hard drive, and it just happens to be an external drive, I wouldn’t expect that scenario to be an issue for you.

As for backups…I have tries MANY over the years,and have been unlucky that NONE, I repeat NONE have evr sucessfully garnered a complete " backup"…mostly for the reason of the O/S preventing access to certain files,and then receiving error messages, or the program getting an error during recovery!..

There are many posts about software backup around teh Net and many programs just dont cut it, its really a case of suck it & see . :smiley:

Discoworx! Thank you so much for all that!

For me, the idea of Cubase on the 1TB temporary USB-connected HDD is just to allow me to test my backup/recovery process - if I can run Cubase and the OS from that, then I’d consider the backup/recovery to have worked. After that, it would be back to business as usual, running off the computer’s C:/ drive. I’m only thinking of this approach so I can avoid having to actually dig inside my computer and physically change out drives … still not sure how that’s going to turn out, especially if Cubase gets confused running on the USB-connected HDD while the dongle is plugged “far away” into the back of the computer.

Holy cow, that is depressing … I sure hope my Paragon software works. It has a decently written manual, maybe that is predictive of a successful backup and recovery!

Thanks again, Discoworx!

As I mentioned (but Im sure someone will chime in and say such & such backup software is great etc…here teh real deal…

If Microsoft cant make a foolproof 100% certain error free backup feature BUILT IN Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit (which I own in my Daws) Then high god, other companies will most certainly run into some problems here & there.

Ive used Norton/NovaStor/Paragon/ (this list is rather long) after all teh headaches I received either trying to backup OR restore…I have relied on this 100% CERTAIn surefire Backup.

Save the Headaches, Whatever drive you have as your O/S drive, BUY A DUPLICATE, (Has to be Exactly the same SIze…same Mb Cache …important!!! ) Then use the Hard Drives Native Backup feature and make a Clone of the Drive. Most Drives (seagate/Western Dig etc have a native FREE utility, specifically for the drive in question.

After you have made a Clone, swap out the drives and check the integrity…If all is well…voila…If not then you are 100% sure that you will have run into difficulties using any built in or extrenal backup software.

Clone & swap out. Sata drives are rather easy to switch out, so dont be afraid of doing it…I have found this method to be the only surefire , robust 100% as close as u can get of a BACKUP.
Im sure others will debate the merits, but I feel safe as houses cos I have a complete duplicate of EVERYTHING…its been verified etc, by switching out, then using C6 for a day or two…after many drive failures lately, and problems with partitions etc, I just use a Samsung 500mb 32mb cache in its entirety as my C: …no partitions etc…I lost a bit of space due to dedicating a drive as such, but it works both as a sure fire backup methid, tested etc, and at last after many yrs, I have no fear of a drive failure,and having to spend over a WEEK installing everything I use. Ni Komplete 7 takes about 5 hrs on its own (90 gb) and I have about 15 yrs worth of plugs that install…now with this method, Headaches are finally a thing of the past. :laughing:

Discoworx - wow - you really are the first person I’ve ever heard with that lengthy a problem list. I’ve been building PCs for various applications for over ten years and I have not once had a backup fail. This isn’t meant to be a flame - don’t take offense please - I’m just astonished you’ve never had at least one error-free backup. Have you tried running specifically with elevated privileges and turning AV off?

Alexis - I’m talking about the Steinberg folder in Program Files. The Cubase6.exe will be there. If you’ve copied your program files to G and you want to test, just dblclk the Cubase6.exe file and it should start up no problem. The dongle can be located from any drive on your machine. Your PC specs would indicate you’ll get better performance if you keep your OS, programs, and libraries on separate internal drives. I would avoid running programs, including Cubase, from external drives as standard operating procedure.

Discoworx - reading what you have to say there’s no doubt in my mind about your reliability … the voice of experience … it’s such a carpshoot gauging that sort of thing on the internet. Thank you so much for your thoughts!

For the “clone and swap out” with a DUPLICATE IDENTICAL HDD … does the “cloning” need to be done “real time”, with the target HDD being in the computer? I ask because mine is a custom-built music computer, and when I had the case off yesterday, I don’t see any slots for a 2nd drive.

I DO have a spare computer, a regular old Compaq from years ago. I could put the target HDD in that for cloning, but is there a legitimate way to “connect” them?

As you can tell I’m very newbie with this stuff - thanks for your patience and help! :slight_smile:

Alexis If it was a Custom Music PC, with only one hard drive space, Id be asking for my money back ! :smiley:

This is what I use for Backup/Cloning etc.

Your M/B will have probably 3-4 Sata ports grouped together & lableled 1-2-3 etc…and probably another 1-2 ports for Sata Raid, & again maybe an E Sata port…This is kinda standard in M/Bs of the last 3-4 yrs, the upshot is you will have extra ports to add more drives, the question is (and maybe this might be your problem, is that you might not have any Bay slots free? (Is it a tower or a 19" Rack case?

  1. buy a USB sata Enclosure, as an easy way to swap out & extend your storage space without opening your computer, as you can then use it to extend your storage space and plug in drives as & when needed…BUT…and I am throwing this in the mix, I would not recommend you to use a SINGLE USB Enclosure to :Clone your C: drive, I am NOT saying you cannot, but I suggest you actually use a Sata port directly cabled on your motherboard, as opposed to a USB, I would hazard a guess that the drive via USB would be treated differently concerning some O/S files etc…Im sure someone might chime in here as too specifics.

Drop in your unformatted drive in a free sata port on the M/B…Use the administration Tools to Mount the Drive and then Format as appropriate. Use the W/D-Samsung etc Free utility to check the drive for compatability, bad sectors, (yes they do happen on new drives too… etc.once everything is cool with your “Vanilla” drive…use the software utility to make a “clone” including all O/S files etc… then shut down after the clone has been verified.

then just disconnect your Port 1 C: drive, and swap the Port 1 cable to the cloned drive…all should be well, if not well as usual something went wry, and redo the procedure.

as I said I use the above product and it works fine…I clone drives at will, and I also use it for extra storage to regain the space I lost when dedicating a complete drive,as opposed to partitions… and its never once messed up, unlike the software onloy backups Ive tried.

Im sure there will be somehting similiar in the US …have a look around a newegg or something.

It’s a rack case, and yes, I don’t think I have any bay slots free.

Discoworx - Thanks for all these explanations - I think you’ve mentioned three ways of cloning:

  1. The , which you use to back up with I think you said. How often do you clone, I’d imagine it’d get old having to take the hard drive out of the computer too often?

  2. A USB SATA enclosure, which may or may not handle some O/S files you suggested (because it is USB). I wonder - how would this kind of clone be tested? … Somehow we’d have to tell the computer to run the O/S from the enclosed HDD, not the one in the computer …? I guess I could put it in a spare computer and boot up …? Boy, if it by chance DOES make a complete clone despite USB connections, it sounds like that could be PERFECT.

  3. Having a 2nd hard drive in the computer to clone to. One thing I thought of with a cloned drive kept in the computer … it doesn’t have that level of security of an off-site storage, for the kind of thing like a fire or flood. I guess there’s plusses and minuses to everything!

Thanks again for the suggestions, Discoworx! I’ll take a look first at the USB-SATA enclosure.

Your over complicating things Alexis.

“whether the USB backup would work”…TRY It! thats why ur doing this in the first place!

I only backup the system at a Fresh Install / All software “Vanilla” stage.I dont do incremental backups, as I save all presets I make on a separate drive et al. all projects /files etc are on a different drive.

Fire/Flood…well lets put things in perspective Alexis…Software would be the last thing to worry about after thats concerned!..stick a drive in, clone then test, if it works then cool, if it doesnt then you did something wrong. and try again :laughing:

Basically keep it clear. Clone your drive - test - put away! if you need continual Incremental Backups, well you can either dedicate a separate drive (WASTE) or try the usb/Esata method…even a Sata - Esata cable will do,and use a normal sata drive on ur Esata port.

Thanks, Discoworx. I’ve got a lot to consider, which is good! I’ll post back when I’ve got it sorted out, or maybe if other questions come up.

Have a great one!

sorry m8, I beg to differ…as do the 1000’s of users who have purchased Novastor,Paragon,Norton etc…and got errors either —

during the procedure
during the Verification procedure
during the restore procedure

as for the reasons …go knock yourself out, I mean really spoil yourself and google “backup software error” OR “Win 7 Backup Error”

sorry for bursting your bubble that Backup software is “Unfallable” …I & the thousands of others would disagree. :blush: May I inquire as to your “chosen program”? as if it has no user forum posts of errors, then Im buying it tomorrow, and please this isnt a flame, just a polite retort to your post. :smiley:

No worries, my bubble is fine. I think you mean infallible, but that’s not what I said. I said I’ve never seen a backup fail.

I looked around as you suggested. What I saw were many reports of operational problems and associated resolutions. I didn’t see any cases where backup/recovery software simply wouldn’t reliably backup and recover. And I can report that Paragon, Symantec, , are all still in business.We’ve been using Acronis for several years in the studio here, both on our PCs and online. I don’t have an exact count, but I’m sure we’ve done over 2,000 backups and made about two dozen recoveries, all without any problems and zero failures. We’ve built several dozen PCs for audio applications for customers, about half with Acronis installed, and none of those users have reported any problems to us. Now, I don’t work for any software company, nor do I recommend any particular product in this forum. The bottom line is that backup and recovery has to be reliably implemented and managed with strict adherence to scheduling. With three years and counting, I think we have a reliable implementation.

There are several strong advantages to operating this way. Having software at the PC level, we can do all of our daily backups easily, and schedule them in the background. There’s no manual labor. It all runs unattended, so there’s no temptation to skip it “just this one time”. Our daily backups can be targeted to the files that get daily revisions. We used to do our weekly and monthly system backups in house, but over the last three years our storage requirements have exploded. This PC in front of me right now has nine internal HDDs, so if I were doing strict versioning of backup, I’d have about fourteen or so drives (28 total) to rotate through the dock every month just for this one machine. We don’t have the time for that, so we’ve gone to online backup. For about $200 a year, I can do versioned system backups on all six of my machines, all scheduled in the background. I’m pretty sure the OP could get the entire machine done online for $5/month.

The alternative you’re suggesting here, cloning drives, does the job. It just creates extra work that unfortunately sometimes doesn’t get done. If the OP specs are correct, there are three drives in the machine. For a versioned backup scheme, that would require six drives, rotated three at a time through the dock at each backup interval. At least three, maybe as much as five hours of work. I don’t know what else is on the machine besides XP, C6, and Melodyne, but it might not take one hour to install it from scratch. Why would you want to spend all that recurring time cloning them up? I’m just saying.

Anyway, my suggestion here is not to throw away a software approach just because someone else had a problem. Sometimes there’s a bug and support has to fix it. Most of the time, the user hasn’t read or interpreted the manual correctly, or has set themselves up for an operational problem. Follow procedure or do the correct work around and the problem goes away. That’s pretty much the way of the world, even in this forum. I don’t see anyone throwing out Cubase because they can’t get something to work right.