Cubase on Mac

[Arjan_P]

@zephonic

I’m not all that technical and don’t know about mach kernels, but to me there appears to be a difference in design philosophy: ASIO is a single-client straightshooter, whereas CoreAudio offers system-wide multi-client versatility.

You’d like to think that ofcourse, but it’s not true. I use my Tascam mixer’s firewire interface with ASIO driver for Cubase and Wavelab at the same time without problem. ASIO drivers can be very flexible, but many third party suppliers don’t bother.

And let’s not cloud this discussion with assumptions about 64 samples buffer settings, DAW-bench is a lot more than just audio interface - more importantly it addresses processing power. So, take a look for yourself - it’s not my claim: DAW-Bench

[papi61]

@zephonic

I’m not all that technical and don’t know about mach kernels, but to me there appears to be a difference in design philosophy: ASIO is a single-client straightshooter, whereas CoreAudio offers system-wide multi-client versatility.

That is simply not true. Granted that some cheap interfaces of some years ago weren’t capable of being multi-client with ASIO, if you use anything by RME, for example, it can be fully multi-client on Windows/ASIO.

[jpgtr]

@realizment

Ive been a cubase user for a long time, years… Always on PC. But due to work commitments im turning over to mac… Its about time anyways… Some people are telling me that cubase doesn’t perform half as well on MAC? is this true? I would of thought the opposite. I use Pro Tools also and this runs way better on mac. But im primarily a cubase user so the thought kind of scares me.

Am i hearing from the wrong people?

Lots of biased opinion here. Here’s my PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE of Cubase 6 on mac:

Running several surround projects at the moment. 60-80 tracks each. 3-4 VSTi (including Kontakt and Addictive Drums). Altiverb, Valhalla Room reverb plugs, UAD-2 duo. LOTS of automation and plugs throughout.

Mac Pro 3.33 hex core w/6GB RAM doesn’t even wake up. Cubase CPU meter hovers around 15% on any triple-digit buffer setting (goes a little higher at 64). This is pretty consistent performance with my projects.

So to say Cubase is less efficient on mac is like saying your Ferrari can outperform a Corvette on a city street. The only fault I would say with Cubase on mac is that it is less efficient in terms of low-latency performance. I can’t count on Cubase to be reliable (no clicks or pops) at 32 buffer setting. 64 is okay.

Cubase has crashed maybe 3 times in the last three months, but only due to my new version of Altiverb 7 (they’re still working out the kinks, apparently). Cubase is pretty stable here. My mac itself has NEVER had a crash or kernel panic. I usually only shut it down if I’m leaving town for a couple days. (I put it to sleep overnight or on long breaks)

PS. I only know of one commercial/pro studio that uses a Windows machine. In the US, the (pro) music industry is most definitely mac. As an example, Berklee College of Music requires their students to own macs.

[realizment]

Thank you for your detailed response it helps!!

[No1DaBeats]

@realizment

I work in the recording industry every studio has a mac, i work full time in one of the busiest studios in hollywood. Im currently building my own mix suite and production room. My job brings me around many of the top studios in los angeles, i have yet to find a pc in one of them… Even in the office.

You’re a lucky man.

[system]

@papi61

That is simply not true. Granted that some cheap interfaces of some years ago weren’t capable of being multi-client with ASIO, if you use anything by RME, for example, it can be fully multi-client on Windows/ASIO.

That!!
I can run several WDM and several ASIO applications, simultaneously over one card without a problem.

@zephonic

But If you need to run more than 100 voices at 64 sample buffer, ASIO on Windows is the way to go.

I hope you mean tracks.
Because a serious VST drum track with open hats, crashes or rides can take up more than 50 voices alone

[zephonic]

@zephonic

But If you need to run more than 100 voices at 64 sample buffer, ASIO on Windows is the way to go.

Another difference in design approach is that Apple’s Logic has an internal fixed higher buffer, independent of the interface’s buffer setting, which works really well at ultra-low latencies in CoreAudio. The one time someone did the DAWbench on Logic it performed better than Cubase on Windows, even at 32 samples, while simultaneously screen-capturing the whole thing in Quicktime.

Cubase works fine on OSX, and I rarely run out of room with an Mbox3Pro at 128 samples, roundtrip latency about 9 ms.

Nonetheless, if you use Cubase and need ultimate performance, I think it’s safe to say that Windows is the better choice. If you want ultimate performance on Mac, use Logic.

Seems that C7’s ASIOguard will level out this discrepancy, at least to some extent. From what I have read it sounds like Steinberg has adopted an approach similar to Logic’s and ProTools’, with an extra buffer for tracks that are not armed.

That is grrreat news for Mac users. I just wonder if it isn’t too little too late, seeing how Apple’s veering off into iWorld, no new MacPro on the horizon and no iMacs on sale right now. Seriously…


BTW, I know that RME cards have multi-client capability, but IIRC that is proprietary technology and not ASIO. The ASIO protocol is single-client only.

An apples-to-apples comparison would be CoreAudio and Windows’ native audio protocol (WDM?), but I won’t go there…

[Arjan_P]

@zephonic

The ASIO protocol is single-client only.

zephonic, how many times do you want to be told? ASIO is NOT single client. Maybe you are confusing multi client with the fact that Windows only accepts one ASIO driver to be active at the same time, but that’s a different thing. I quote myself from earlier in this topic: “I use my Tascam mixer’s firewire interface with ASIO driver for Cubase and Wavelab at the same time without problem. ASIO drivers can be very flexible, but many third party suppliers don’t bother.”

[zephonic]

@Arjan P

zephonic, how many times do you want to be told? ASIO is NOT single client.

I guess you know best, but Steinberg seems to disagree with you:

PC Windows ASIO multiclient driver by Charlie Steinberg

"[…] ASIO (Audio Streaming Input Output) is a technology of Steinberg.
It allows for low latencies and pretty much every state-of-the-art audio device is nowadays delivered with an ASIO driver (on Windows, at least). > However, the basic idea behind ASIO is
that professional audio applications entirely take ownership of the ASIO device. Only very few ASIO drivers support true multiple application access.
This effectively means that you can not use 2 or more applications using the same ASIO device at the same time.

This from the readme that accompanied the unofficial multi-client driver made by Charlie Steinberg himself.
I guess most modern soundcard manufacturers have since solved this issue themselves, like RME did.

However, my point was the difference in design philosophy between ASIO and CoreAudio. The former, like Steinberg says above (highlighted), is designed for maximum performance with a single application, whereas CoreAudio is meant to provide professional grade low-latency audio system-wide. And I maintain that this somewhat (but not completely) explains Cubase’s performance deficit on OSX.


Just google ASIO multi-client if you want to get the whole picture.

[Arjan_P]

You just proved my point. “Please also note that some ASIO driver are already multiclient. Some examples are Alesis devices, Steinberg MI2/MI4 or Terratec interfaces.” Your quote: “The ASIO protocol is single-client only.”

Right, on to music making.