Cubase Pro 12 & SoundID Reference - Confused

Cubase
1

I’m currently using the trial version for headphones and I understand the basics of it all. But I need to figure out if it’s for me or not before the trial expires.

Pardon the following circumstances round-up but it’s necessary for context:

My goal isn’t to become a professional artist to make money off of my work. Few people hear my music so far. I’m a soon to be 70 y.o. Person on a fixed Social Security/disability income just with a very serious music hobby. I picked up a guitar in my teens, so it didn’t start yesterday.

As shown in the two pics below, I have a very simple setup in my living-room/bedroom – you can see my kitchen in the shot showing the back of my monitors.

COMPUTER SETUP
COMPUTER SETUP1920×853 172 KB

DESK_FROM_FRONT- ADJ
DESK_FROM_FRONT- ADJ1920×821 105 KB

My near-field monitors are 5.25” Presonus Eris E5 2-Way. Headphones: basic AKG K240 Studio. Audio interface: Behringer U-Phoria UMC204HD 24-bit/192kHz. OS Windows 10.

Due to living at a local Housing Authority property for seniors and disabled people, I cannot do any apartment modification such as soundproofing and such. I also just don’t have that kind of money either.

But I want to get better at mixing and mastering just for the craft of it. So something like SoundID Reference could offset the poor room situation.

Yet I’m a bit confused on what purpose it would serve since in the end one has disable it as insert on one’s master bus when exporting a mix.

I’m including below screenshots of a few SoundID using an excerpt of the current chorus of a very rough project (I have a lot of clean up to do – it’s muddy, etc. but that’s not the point):

The examples are just to show the drastic difference in real-world environments in line with this:

“According to recent studies, over 85% of music streaming happens on mobile devices, with smartphones making up the bulk of this usage. Tablets, computers, and smart speakers are also common, but they tend to be used more for home listening or when higher-quality audio is preferred.”

As you can guess and see, such devices butcher even a full spectrum rough draft mix.

SoundID Reference - Flat Target
SoundID Reference - Flat Target1231×836 209 KB

SoundID - Flat Target Average

SoundID Reference -In-Ear
SoundID Reference -In-Ear1231×836 199 KB

SoundID - Headphones In-Ear Average

SoundID - Smartphone Average
SoundID - Smartphone Average1232×837 182 KB

SoundID - Smartphone Average

SoundID Reference -Car 1
SoundID Reference -Car 11231×836 218 KB

SoundID - Cars - Car 1 (entry level, most common car audio system)

So…

1. How does one adjust one’s mixes/mastering to make one’s music at least listenable on such devices using SoundID Reference as a guide without having to do drastic changes to one’s overall mix?

2. I already fire up Cubase’s Mix6To2 on my master bus set to mono for occasional testing. Do I even need SoundID Reference, and if so what does it offer over a simple mono bus test?

Again, all this in context of my situation. I’m not trying to become the next Alan Parsons, I just want my stuff to sound reasonably acceptable even on tinny smartphone speakers. :sunglasses:

Thanks.

2

You’ve put it in the wrong Insert. You should use the Control Room for this. The purpose of the CR is to allow you to modify the Audio you are hearing without impacting the actual recording.

The signal goes
Mix > Stereo Out (this gets exported) > Control Room > Speakers & Headphones

So if you are correcting for headphones you should use the Insert for those headphones (or speakers or whatever) in the CR. The Insert Slots at the top are for each specific Output you have while the Slots at the bottom are common to all. Since this computer only has one Output that doesn’t really matter here.

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3

For audio work you ideally want to listen to a perfectly flat frequency response. This is something that can only be approximated in the real world. And it turns out a flat frequency response is not very flattering for music. So most headphones & speakers are designed to not be so clinical because who wants to buy speakers that make the music sound worse? Turns out Audio Engineers do. So the purpose of this calibration software is to get as close to a flat response as it can.

And that’s it. It’s not there to check a mix for anything. It’s more akin to installing acoustic panels in the room.

4

Sonarworks SoundID Reference fulfills 2 functions that are basically independent of each other:

  1. Permanent Calibration of the existing sound transducers (loudspeakers incl. room, headphones) in order to obtain the most neutral and undistorted reproduction possible in the studio. The calibration of loudspeakers including the studio room is carried out using a measuring microphone, that of supported headphones using a stored frequency response curve of the corresponding model.

  2. Temporarily Simulation of different playback devices (monitors, in-ear phones, car speakers, etc.) to find out how the mix sounds on different playback devices (“Translation Check”). This allows weak points in the mix to be identified and dealt with. Naturally, it must be clear that a mix that should sound good on all possible devices will always be a compromise.

For both functions, all signal adjustments should only be applied to the monitoring channels (i.e. in Cubase: Control Room = what you hear), not to the recording channels (Mix Out > Export = what you record), as mentioned earlier.

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Regarding your AKG 240 Studio headphones.: I have a set of them, too, among other headphones. You have surely noticed that by turning on the calibration for this model there’s a whole new sound to your mix.
If you want to work with sound correction in general (which I highly recommend with the AKG 240) then you have to get used to the new sound by listening to all sorts of music not only while mixing and producing but in your down time, too. Try to get used to the new standard and listen to your favourite music and reference songs. It takes weeks until your ears and your brain will adapt and it feels like the new norm. As a result, you will be able to make better informed decisions when it comes to mixing in the future.

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6

I use SoundID and you just leave it on the control room inserts as mentioned in an earlier post. It is not applied to the mix and you do not have to remove it. I have three inserted for main output and two sets of headphones. I never touch them. I’ve almost forgot they are there.

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7

@mkok Just out of interest: Do you also use the Translation Check function?

8

Thanks to all your responses. Can’t reply currently, but will do so in a day or so. NRN.

9

Solid advice which often isn’t taken into account.

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10

Still not ready to reply due to other life priorities.
But do have a general forum question:

There are more than one responses here that qualify as a “Solution” for they are complementary that I would like to acknowledge. Can one choose more than one?

11

All good! I agree that there are plenty of good answers so it´s worth reading the whole thread and not skipping to one single “solution” (which is the whole point of marking an answer as the solution). That´s really kind of you to worry about it :+1:

I hope I didn´t step on anyone´s toes…?

12

Agreed. That said, I just figured it out: no, one can only choose one posting as Solution; once one does that, the option disappears from all other posts.

So I’m going to have to choose one. The best I can do is then is to hit the heart icon so the other contributors know their input has been appreciated.

OK, off topic closed.

13

@raino @Reco29 @ASM

Alright, back here to respond. I’ll be applying what you all stated - incl. using the Control Room (so far never had done so) for this.

I put on my headphones when needing to here more subtle things in the mix. Otherwise, I use my Presonus near-fields - this in part because I have tinnitus and too much use of headphones isn’t productive for that condition.

@raino stated:

It takes weeks until your ears and your brain will adapt and it feels like the new norm. As a result, you will be able to make better informed decisions when it comes to mixing in the future.

Question:

— Does hearing the mix through SoundID through the Control Room with the near-fields still help in this adapting to a flatter response - or less so since the calibration is set to my headphones?

— I don’t have the funds to buy the more expensive version of SoundID that includes/applies to speakers, so since my use is primarily speakers*, how would I set it for that?

*The headphones version does have some generic speakers choice but I don’t know if that would be useful.

14

Pretty sure you can’t. But there’s no need to mark a thread as having a solution. Especially for one like this which is more a discussion about how to use some tools. The real value in marking Solutions is for later Searches, especially for topics about fixing broken stuff.

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15

No, don’t do this. It will just mess up the sound from the speaker more. Think of it like eyeglasses - my prescription only works for me & not you, and vice-versa. It is correcting audio in a similar way.

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16

If you have headphone only version then you can’t use it for your monitors. To do that you need the version with the calibration microphone and you have to follow instructions to get the response curve of your speakers for your sitting position. This is very specific for your room and speakers.

17

Forget SoundID if you don’t want/can’t spend the money.
Use your speakers and reference tracks instead. Listen to pieces of music that sound the way you would like your music to sound like. Listen to them on the speakers over and over again. This will train your ears (your brain) to the sound.
It is easier to get to your goal if you know what your goal is… or sounds like in this case.

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18

@Johnny_Moneto - Thanks you for your perspective. After some thought, I’m going to go in that direction.

But using the trial versions of SoundID and looking at and hearing the various devices proved useful in getting a sense of how different music sounds on each, however limited the choices in the trial version may be.

And, the advice given here to start to use the Control Room is valuable.

19

Yes and no.
There are numereous cases of mixing engineers working in an environment that is acoustically challenging or with speakers/headphones that wouldn´t necessarily be deemed as professional systems. That doesn´t keep them from making great records. They know their systems inside out and can “read” what they hear and act accordingly.
BUT…
If fou´re new to the game it might be difficult to understand how your headphones colour the mix and certain frequencies are pushed or diminished. As a result, it is even harder to detect shortcomings - especially on budget studio headphones like the AKG 240s - within that frequency range.
Moreover, if you don´t have the possibility to check your mixes on different systems (speakers, car, club and whatnot) then you might find it useful to have at least a tool at hand that points you in the right direction. Over time you´ll get a better understanding of how things work and you might not necessarily need a correction software with all its apparent shortcomings anymore.

To sum up: I think it´s useful to have something in your toolbox that helps you to look into your mix on a more or less neutral level before it is coloured by whatever system you use or environment you´re in. I´m not saying it is impossible to mix without - not at all - just that it is quite helpful, especially if you´re new to the game. But that´s just my personal opinion.

One rule that rules them all: Don´t let any technical issues/restrictions ever keep you from making music.

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@Newsoniclight I´ve just read your reply after writing the last post. Go with whatever floats your boat :+1: There is no universal truth and whoever claims to have it - well, better step aside and think twice :wink:

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