I found this thing trying to make absolutely sure that I know what the max levels are in different points on the signal chain. My observation is that as the unity level test signal - 1000hz, with values -1.0<x< 1.0 from wav file on Cubase track - travels to Cubase mixer outputs observed on mixer it gets 3db added when it is monitored in the mixer window. This is kind of non pro feature if it cannot be set somewhere. Or as I suspect is it my fault and I just cannot find where that setting is. I have RME Raydat ADAT card with totalmixer and then it goes to ADA8200 DA output which I monitor with oscilloscope. I can verify that the clipping treshold happens inside Cubase from track to mixer. Other stages keep the signal as unity when set so. Cubase track output or its mixer makes that +3db boost for some reason.
Where can I set the reference so that 0.0db track output is 0.0db on the mixer output also?
What’s your pan law set to in the project you’re running?
What is plan law?
Non-zero Pre-Gain somewhere along the signal path?
Yes, pan law.
Is your test signal mono or stereo? How is it panned?
Must edit this wrong info. Right info is that stereo pan law first had no effect but now it has. And -6db pan law works for mono channel fed into stereo output.
Ok. I found the solution. You got me on the right track. The file is mono on stereo channel. C13 doubles the unity gain sample and I get twice the signal(+3db). Which is correct isn’t it? When I change the track to mono the level at the output drops 3db.
Now I don’t quite yet get what exactly are these decibels metered.
But the bottomline is I have strong idea of unity going through system as expected and then get unclipped high voltages which I want to know.
I expect it to work other way around too so the stereo channel gets combined if fed to mono output.
“Mono on a stereo channel” is what’s causing you problems. If you’re trying to line things up, get a stereo test signal for a stereo channel and a mono test signal for a mono channel. Keep things simple.
Yes. You are absolutely right.
But how would you record guitar input which is mono to get all the panning and stereo effects working as expected? I have never got it actually cleared out as all I basically do is testing. There must be some built in inteded way to do it or industry practise.
Set up some sends from your mono track to the different stereo effects you want to blend in.
When I used to record my guitar-playing I used to record to a stereo audio track. I use an RME AIO interface with 6 mono inputs.
edit:
If I HAD to have mono, I would route the stereo audio to a mono group track.
If you do a round trip from input to output of your soundcard it often have decrepency on the volume because max input and max output are often different.
For exemple mine has 18dBu out and 16dBu input for 0dB FS in cubase. it translates in a gain of 2dBu. Not sure about my exact levels on my soundcard but you get the idea.
if you don’t do in out roundtrip, then it could be a summing of L+R on a mono channel somewhere or also a balanced to unbalanced input on your scope that explains the x2 output level (+3dBu)
I really think you’re overthinking this. If you want to record guitar you measure the level into the interface to avoid clipping. Once you’ve got your signal converted it matters almost nothing at all if it’s “off” by 3dB. You can very easily just adjust any fader or other point to get level where you want it.
The Steinberg audio engine works fine as far as I know, meaning that mono into stereo and vice versa is good.
Well why would +/-3dB matter? If it’s too soft turn it up. If it’s too loud turn it down.
People might find it more easy to figure out solutions for you if you posted a video or at least screenshots of what you want to do along with a description of exactly what the problem is.
I’m sorry but I do things my way. It means I do understand only what I do understand. I like to understand things so that I can contemplate vision and then follow that vision and get it right. It has worked for me very well. I’m not ready to pretend to understand something I do not. My question includes all I wanted to know and Dunk79 opened the road to understanding. A simple factual question should not stir up any controversy.
What pic you would like to have? Maybe my measurement on the audio interface? I have two of them ADA8200 and Ultramatch if it helps. Other one is doing what it promises and other one is not. That means output levels and voltages. So why anyone would like to know those voltages exactly?
So. To help you understand what I’m at here. If say like with RME Raydat AES channel to Ultramatch analog output says 13.7 volts peak to peak with all stages at unity gain at DAW and RME totalmixer would be just -3db off you would get 9.8 volts. That is 3.9 volts difference. Depending on what is your application at the subsequent stage it could be meaningful. Strongly. In this case I like to know what voltage I’m getting when moving my slider in front of chain without a need to go measure anything. It is not about mixing at all. I know mixing happens by listening. This is not about listening but engineering the signal.
The signals in Cubase are shown as dBFS.
Here is what the level conversion between mono and stereo in Cubase looks like when using “Equal Power” as the Pan Law 
:
I use a mono signal on a mono channel → going to a stereo channel → which then goes to a mono channel → which then goes to another stereo channel → and finally to RME’s TotalMix
The initial signal was at 0dBFS.
So you see that, as per the pan law, the mono signal gets distributed to the two channels of the stereo group so that each channel has a -3dBFS signal.
When I sent this 2* -3dBFS signal to a mono channel it gets combined to a 0dBFS signal again.
When I then send it to a stereo channel we see the 2* -3dBFS again.
The stereo signal, with both channels at -3dBFS is then send to the RME driver and from there to TotalMix. TotalMix displays the same -3dBFS value as Cubase.
Conclusion: changes in levels (no plugins, all faders at unity gain) occur only when converting mono to stereo as per the Pan Law settings in Cubase. Use “Equal Power” and there is no 3dB level boost anywhere.
There is no “controversy”. I’m just trying to understand why it matters.
I don’t know who else other than you wants to know voltages. I thought this was about what happens inside Cubase. I don’t think we need to deal with voltages to figure that out. As a matter of fact I think that introduces more parameters we don’t need in the form of the interfaces you mentioned, assuming this is all about Cubase.
I just meant that if you still feel that something is “off” about how Cubase is handling levels throughout the signal chain then it would be helpful to see pictures of the various stages you measure that signal, in Cubase. Preferably with routing indicated. Like Johnny posted.
Ok, I understand. I guess my take on it is just that mixing through listening ends up engineering the signal as a result anyway. In my personal experience I’ve never had to deal with any significant level discrepancy outside of the DAW in the range of 3dB. I suppose if you are a mastering engineer and you’re using analog gear maybe for some reason it is important to hit a very specific level, but for me in my past life as a music engineer any time I sent a signal out of the DAW (Pro Tools at the time) I just looked at the meters and either adjusted levels in the PT mixer, on the analog device’s input or output, or by adjusting thresholds etc. I never bothered to figure out if something was “off” by 3dB (or whatever), I just grabbed an appropriate knob or fader and adjusted level to get the result I wanted.
Also please note: These forums have a bunch of different posters in them. There’s no telling who someone is and what their experience is. You have people getting confused about the most basic things in Cubase/Nuendo simply because they are too new to understand how it works and they end up thinking something is wrong. Others have decades worth of experience and have worked with great artists or on great movies or whatever. So if a reply seems to be treating you as if you don’t know anything or are doing the wrong thing that is often not the way it’s intended, it’s just worded a certain way to get anyone to a greater understanding or whatever. So it’s often not a put-down, just dispassionate discourse while trying to help.
just my 2 cents.
Sorry for all the text.
So you mean I’m not entitled the question because there is different levels of competency in this forum? If you read my question you must have make a note I did not blame Cubase but my self. You got me totally wrong. I love Cubase. My question included the disclaimer as clear as it can be.
I need to know those DA interface voltages even if you don’t like it and it can be helpful information for someone else who does reamping.
In fact understanding about those pan laws would give good boost of confidence for any beginner. There are those settings in project settings after all. I have never quite understood them but proceeded with workarounds. Now I got to know understanding about those settings makes life much easier.
That is not what what Mattias wrote at all. He wrote that the level of an answer might mismatch the level of competency of the questioneer. Either too complex or to easy.
The issue with voltages is that they are measured way outside of Cubase and therefore other parts of your equipment can (and does) have an influence on the signal before you measure it.
Glad to hear that you could be helped.