Cubase will be left behind without CLAP, AUv3?

Anyone else agree that if Steinberg refuse to bring CLAP into the fold that it could affect the company’s ability to retain users in the future?
VST3 + CLAP should be the bare minimum

Everyone should get the clap :smiling_imp:

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While I of course (cough, cough) know what “CLAP” means, perhaps there are others among us who could use a small reminder…

Mr. Google seems unhelpful in this regard.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=CLAP

Thanks for that @raino I promise I wasn’t trying to be crass…that’s all @MrSoundman doing lol

There doesn’t seem to be a rush really. Not many 3rd party plugin makers that I care about are on the list of those that support this format, and only two DAWs.

In case anyone is still wondering what CLAP means :

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What about AUv3 in your opinion?
For example the Animoog is amazing on AUv3 but when using the vst3 wrapper it basically crashes a DAW. MY main point to raise is do you think Steinberg are hurting themselves by marrying itself to only VST3 long term?

Well we don’t know if that’s going to be true for the long term, and in the long term we have no idea how things like CLAP will turn out. I just don’t think there’s any reason for Steinberg to rush to keep up. They probably just have to keep up with the main competitors.

They don’t have to do it, VST 3 is standard still. I would be more confident with that format being developed now, and in the long run.

It’s a good idea but the past is littered with many ‘standards’ that did not stick:

What may seem like the best (or ‘open’ and ‘free’) option may also not be the thing that becomes the ingrained standard because consumers are not necessarily rational.

To this day you can get a full Office Suites from multiple developers for zero dollars but many individuals and organisations pay huge dollars for Microsoft Office although the free ones are, in the main, compatible in most repsects.

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Business use of Microsoft products is often a mix of the Microsoft ecosystem and inertia. I can pull data sources into Excel for analysis using Power Query, then recycle the Power Query M code for Power BI. I don’t think any of the Office clones implement Power Query. Office also integrates with OneDrive for Business, whilst both Office and Teams integrate with SharePoint.

With a single Microsoft 365 business subscription, I have desktop Office, the full feature set of the Office app on Android unlocked, hosted Exchange e-mail, OneNote hosted on SharePoint, 1TB of cloud storage, SharePoint and Teams. Microsoft 365 has good support for collaboration “out of the box”. All the “in the cloud” storage and services are integrated well into PowerShell and Power Automate. Moreover, there are no one-off update costs - you just keep paying the subscription. I appreciate that I am more of a power user than many when it comes to Microsoft 365, but I certainly get value from it.

These days, a Microsoft 365 subscription, an Adobe Creative Cloud subscription, and keeping my Steinberg software up to date cover almost all my needs. I do have some plugins (mainly iZotope Everything Bundle and some Adobe Lightroom Classic plugins) and ancillary software, but I try to do as much as possible within the Microsoft, Adobe, and Steinberg ecosystems. Indeed, as SpectraLayers continues to evolve, I find that I am using iZotope RX less than before.

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VST3 is working so well here on MacOS and windows 11 I personally see no need at all to throw another format into my mix.
I’m sure the reason I have zero issues with Cubase on windows 11 and MacOS sonoma is because I ONLY use VST3 plugins in my projects.
This way I have full cross platform compatability as well as stability on either.

M

By your logic Avid ProTools should have been out of business for a long time already. No support for Clap, AU, and VST whatsoever.

Thanks for all the knowledge. I learn a lot on here.

Just wondering. Is it specifically due to the VST3 format that unlike logic we can not have scaler as a midi insert.
Or like pro tool have just implemented, modalics arp as an insert + loopamix with a number of 3rd party devs to come.
Is this due to the plug-in format or a I way off the mark?

MIDI inserts are a different discussion altogether, there are a few forum posts on the topic.

From my experience each DAW has it’s own MIDI inserts system, Only Reaper seems to embrace using a VST as a MIDI FX insert out of the box.

As I see things there were a few prominent individuals at SB, who were opposed to VST3 actively embracing the transport of MIDI style data - And that caused friction with third party developers who struggled to take their MIDI generative plugins from VST2->VST3, forming part of the reason that certain developers and end users wish to support CLAP today.

I don’t think Cubase will be left behind without CLAP as VST is far too established. However, I think the next major iteration of VST will be extremely important for them to get right, as if there’s the same level of slow take up you may see more developers seeking CLAP/AU if Steinberg aren’t on the same page as them.

It would be really nice to have a standard that includes MIDI inserts though. There’s no reason it can’t just be the same format really, and as per Reaper have it post sequencer/timeline.

Oh yes, I know that people will pull my MS Office example and then have a retort or it will resonate with them it in a specific case. I was just using it as an example that free and open things exist but won’t always be taken up for all sorts of reasons; i.e., familiarity and long term investment with the known product/ecosystem, the support structure offered by the known product or because the known item is turn key etc. For all this sort of stuff (and many other reasons) people will pay money (sometimes a lot of money) to stay on a known product/format pathway.

I offer ‘support’ for the use of citation/referencing software in my role helping tertiary level students and researchers but the industry standard product is terribly complicated, expensive and confusing for students to learn but it maintains strong market share where there are much better and more modern options that will do the job for free and more reliably. Our University pays for a license for the established platform though so we officialy support that product.

I think what I am alluding to is that a new plugin format may come along that is ‘free and open’ and it’s to be commended but the established plugin formats are going to be difficult to move away from for similar reasons I have stated in my examples. It’s not just the consumers who need to embrace and use them, it’s also the developers that will have to make a move.

What is out there for CLAP? The plug-in market is flooded right now. It’s interface and controller tech that is needed. I’d rather see Steinberg/Yamaha work on a new real-time replacement for MIDI.

Fabfilter and TAL are the two I use most as Reaper will use them as a priority over VST versions. And they already work great with more enhancements to come such as the non-destructive automation and performance improvements.

Well, if they didn’t have the overhead of managing and setting standards for VST, you’d imagine resources could be put into those areas ahead of deeper MIDI 2.0 implementations as CLAP is prepped for that and already has preset discovery as a draft component - which would be great for controllers as you only have to learn the DAWs next/prev preset commands and plugins would respond.

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Yeah I’ve made a few regarding how the inserts need work. But having just had a look at what pro tools have just done with inserts (who have arguably lagged for years in this area) I thought that possibly what was allowing this was the plugin format used.
Hence the thread. Could we even wish to match the inserts of Logic and Pro tools with VST3 or does something inherently not allow that functionality in the format that is allowed in CLAP AAX & AUv3?