I just received a new midi pad controller to engrave drum parts in Dorico.
I finished setting up a custom percussion map to fit the controller, but then realized I can’t get the playback to provide the right sounds.
For example, a Hi-Hat showing on the screen is now heard as a bass drum sound…
To be honest, I have absolutely no idea where to go from here…
I searched the forum and in the documentation files, but can’t figure it by myself…
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated !
Thanks in advance !
I’m not sure what you mean by this. The whole point of a Percussion Map is to link the Instruments in your Percussion Kit and their Playback Techniques to your VST.
Indeed you assign your drum library keyswitches to the pads. It could however be a difference between middle C of your drum library and the middle C used in the percussion map in Dorico. . In such cases all key switches in your percussion map might be an octave too high or too low.
To give some more details.
When the default Yamaha XG Percussion Map is selected, I get the following from my pad controller.
Pad 1 - C1 - Kick Drum
Pad 2 - C#1 - Cross-Stick
Pad 3 - D1 - Snare Drum
Pad 4 - D#1 - Hand Clap (shown as A over the standard 5 lines stave)
[See image file #3 attached]
When I switch to my custom made Presonus-Atom Percussion Map, I get the desired visual appearance on the stave, but with the Yamaha GX playback.
Pad 1 - C1 - Hi-Hat heard as Kick Drum on playback
Pad 2 - C#1 - Ride heard Cross-Stick on playback
Pad 3 - D1 - Snare Drum heard as Snare Drum on playback (This one is correct as both entries are the same in both percussion maps)
Pad 4 - D#1 - Bass Drum heard as Hand Clap on playback
[See image file #4 attached]
Thanks mavros.
I got this issue, but simply adapted the Percussion Map accordingly.
So even though the Pad send C1, I associated C2 in the custom Percussion Map I created. That solved the issue.
Yet, my current problem is more “playback oriented”.
That is probably best as changing middle C in a plugin or even Daw/Dorico in general leads to some surprises.
I often use Addictive drums with NI Maschine finger drumming pad layout to play in a drum lines or a preregistered groove with some manual modifications.
That’s precisely what I’m trying to achieve.
But haven’t found how to do it…
If you have a way, I’m all ears…
So far, either I succeed in getting the correct playback (but midi note entry doesn’t work properly) OR the opposite (correct note entry, but wrong playback sounds)…
When it comes to certain midi controllers, and libraries, because there is a different standard regarding middle C, I usually prefer to disregard note names such as C3/C4 altogether and use midi numbers, which are unambiguous.
Earlier this year I had mapped a Roland SPDsx Drum Pad for use in Dorico (and Cubase) and I found it’s a lot easier to use midi numbers instead.
If the drum pad itself doesn’t offer way to see midi numbers, I would recommend is to download a free Midi Monitor app to see exactly what each pad is outputting as a number value, and then map accordingly on the percussion map side (the first column). Not sure if that is the issue but it would be worth investigating to be sure.
Nothing to be sorry about Daniel !
Thanks for giving a helping hand when you can !
Here is the project or should I say, a test file.
PS - In Play > VST > You’ll see a Funk E Kit, but I usually leave it empty as it gives the wrong sounds on note entry, which is more disturbing than helping for now…
Understood – though it does sound like the percussion map is not working - since the percussion map is related to playback of notes on the staves I generally still recommend mapping based on midi numbers moving forward, it does make diagnosis of issues a lot easier rather than dealing with octaves and traditional note numbers. One less ambiguity in the mix. Your description, to me, sounds like an octave displacement, but I cannot be sure.
In your Percussion Map, you have mapped instruments to various MIDI Notes that you want to use. (This is the VST I tested with which reproduced your dilemma). I’m guessing you’ve done this because these are the notes that your Pad is set to send?
BUT
Even though you have mapped High-hat to C1 or C2 (depending on the octave), it is still triggering the sound that C1 or C2 is mapped to in the VST - which is Kick Drum.
You need to assign your Presonus Pads to send those MIDI Notes. e.g. you need to set your “High-hat” Pad to trigger F#1 or F#2 if you want to hear a High-hat - because that is the MIDI Note that triggers a High-hat in the VST.
I think the only way around this would be to change the mapping of each instrument within your VST. I’m not sure if this is currently possible in Halion or Groove Agent SE.
You’re correct and the MIDI notes sent by my pad controller cannot be customized. This is clearly a limitation, which is why I was trying to find another way around.
So if I get it right, in my current situation, I either have to choose between getting the right note placements on the stave OR proper playback, BUT there is no way to get both as soon as I there’s a custom percussion map involved… (unless I find a way to change the mapping within the VST itself as you mentioned).
Is that correct ?
In other words, using a custom percussion map can be very useful for the note entry aspect, but is in some way detrimental to the playback aspect. The opposite is also true and sticking with the notes triggering the right VST sounds allows the playback to work fine, but do not allow proper visual presentation.
Aren’t there situations where both are required ?
Though it would have been useful, I can definitely deal with it.
But I’m thinking I must not be the first person to encounter a similar scenario.
Again, thanks for your help ! At least I’m learning !
Most VST’s allow you to change the MIDI note that triggers a sound but it appears that Halion and Groove Agent do not have this feature.
Percussion and Expression Maps exist to translate information from your music to the VST; I don’t think that they have anything to do with how you input notes. Someone feel free to disagree!!
When I try to enter notes into a Drum kit that’s using my custom Percussion Map, the keys I press are related to where the note would be on a staff. e.g. if I play an F, the Kick Drum will sound. If I play a C above that, the Snare will sound. Perhaps this is changeable.
I generally still recommend mapping based on midi numbers moving forward, it does make diagnosis of issues a lot easier rather than dealing with octaves and traditional note numbers. One less ambiguity in the mix. Your description, to me, sounds like an octave displacement, but I cannot be sure.
