Custom techniques mismatched in different projects

Dorico
1

Hi,

I’m creating a series of templates for my libraries. Some use the same libraries in different contexts. An example is with VSL BBO libraries:

  • A “BBO Xmap Repository”, collecting all the techniques and xmaps for the BBO libraries, to use as a palette when sketching with grand staves.

  • A series of “BBO Strings”, “BBO Woodwinds”, and so on, where the traditional orchestral sections are assigned to a BBO sound.

Since it is not possible to exchange playing and playback techniques, I have to rebuild them in all templates. I have the same custom techniques in both types of template. For example, the “marcato sempre (text)” playing technique is in both. It will recall the same-named playback technique, that will then go to the Marcato articulation in the BBO libraries.

When I do some editing from one of the Dorico template projects, I then export the Xmap. I then import it in the other template projects.

Here is the problem: the custom playback techniques in the target project are mostly changed to something like “pt.user.name” from the complete name in the source project. For example, “marcato sempre (text)” changes to “pt.user.marcato_text”. I’m quite sure I assigned the same name to the playing and playback techniques in the source and target projects. Should they be supposed to match the exchanged Xmap?

Paolo

2

Because playback techniques and playing techniques are not exported when you export expression maps, you can’t really reliably do this: you should use playback templates, because only when you export endpoint configurations will the dependent playback and playing techniques be included.

3

Thank you Daniel. I’ll change my strategy, and start from the score instruments, instead of the library.

So, I’ll configure the woodwinds project template with the library sounds, and add its endpoint configuration to the playback template.

When creating the strings project template, I’ll apply the playback template and have all the already created techniques available for the new section.

The same with the more “FX” libraries, that I will create as a set of keyboards. In the end, each coherent set of libraries will have its own endpoint configuration. If I’m not mistaken, they should add their techniques to all the other sections and endpoint configurations.

Paolo

4

Hi,

I’m moving another thread here, since I see they are related.

Suppose my playback template includes two endpoint configurations both containing settings for ensemble strings.

When I apply this playback template, which one of the endpoint configurations wins?

Also, since I would like to have both strings libraries in my score (for layering or specialized tasks): is there a way to have two ensemble strings groups, each one configured by one of the above endpoint configurations?

A workaround: have both strings libraries in the same endpoint configuration. When you don’t need one of them, you are wasting space, but you can easily remove them from the score and from VEPRO.

Unnecessary playing techniques will however continue to populate the already crowded Playing Techniques panel.

The workaround mentioned above seems to be the only way to do it. Having separate endpoint configurations for, say Orchestral Strings, Appassionata Strings and Chamber Strings, simply applies the first end.conf. found to the strings ensemble.

So, there is no easy alternative to having all strings in the same template project, and delete what is not used only when you are sure you will not have to reapply the playback template again.

A more intricate alternative is to have different playback templates, each one with different end.conf. referring to different strings libraries. But this would make programming playing and playback techniques more difficult (if not at all impossible, due to a mismatch in the link to the xmap entries).

Paolo

5

I don’t know how to proceed in building my playback template. Here are the issues I’m facing:

a) Create several separate end.conf, one for each section and type of library. For example, Appassionata Strings will have an end.conf and the dedicated Dorico template project; Orchestral Strings will have a different end.conf and dedicated Dorico template project.

This will allow for modularity, but techniques will not match. There is no way to exchange common techniques between projects, and in any case they wouldn’t always match.

b) Create a huge end.conf and Dorico template project for all the instruments. When the setup is done, split it into separate projects and end.confs.

There will be a lot of cleaning to do after splitting (remove players; remove unused articulations from the endless list; remove VSTi instances). In case of changes to a technique, you will have to repeat it in all the separate projects. Adding new techniques will mean having a mismatch between projects/templates.

c) Don’t use playback templates. Use the old method of pre-made templates, one for each situation.

In this case, adapting the project to different situations (for example, going from sketch to final, or from a library to another) will not be easy.

Paolo

6

Here is an example of the side effects of point (a) above:

  1. I’ve create a separate end.conf and containing Dorico template project for Orchestral Strings and Appassionata Strings.

  2. I edited the playing techniques and playback techniques in the Orchestral Strings. I associated the playback techniques to the corresponding entries of the VSL strings expression map. I’ve exported the expression map to disk. I’ve updated the playback template, by removing and then adding again the end.conf for the Orchestral Strings.

  3. I’ve opened the Dorico template project containing settings for the Appassionata Strings. There were the outdated playing techniques, probably due to the fact that I have the end.conf for Appassionata Strings active, and not the one for Orchestral Strings.

  4. If I apply the playback template, I can either leave the Orchestral Strings in the first position, or move to the first position the Appassionata Strings. In the first case, I get the staves relinked to the Orchestral Strings sounds; in the second case, the staves are left linked to the Appassionata Strings sounds, but the playing techniques are not updated.

No idea on how to deal with this. Unless I go for the method (b) above (creating a huge end.conf and Dorico template project for all the instruments, and the splitting them it into separate projects and end.confs when all is done).

Paolo

7

No need to have different playback templates. Before applying the playback template, it is only necessary to move the end.conf for the desired strings library on top of the string libraries.

Paolo

8

Ok, I’m confused on my own, but maybe there is a bug making things more difficult. I suspect (but I can’t isolate it) that the first time I apply the playback template to a template project, playing techniques are not added from a different end.conf to the current project. The second time, it may be added.

Paolo

9

Hey Paolo,

You lost me in the thread. Or I took a wrong turn and got myself lost, whichever :slight_smile:

One of your major end goals as I understand it, is to have two ensemble strings groups (for example) that can use different libraries for layering, FX etc. And one of the constraints you have to work with, is that there can be only one mapping for the same player/instrument/voice today.

Voice might be key - I’m thinking that voices can be used for switching. In my case, if a VST isn’t needed then it isn’t loaded even if it is in the template. So MAYBE (haven’t tested) the VST won’t be loaded if that voice isn’t used. Might be worth trying, and the second one with its mapping would have to be in the master template.

You could create an external midi endpoint, and use one of the virtual midi tools out there to split/duplicate the output, but I don’t know how you’d use different mapping for each one.

10

Sorry to add more chaos to an already chaotic world!

It is correct that one of my goals is to layer. In one case (same type of library) this is easily solved in VEPRO, by adding instrument channels with the same MIDI channel. For example, I can have Orchestral Violins I and Solo Violin 1 on MIDI channel 1, and they will react together. I have the same xmap for both, so they work as a single instrument.

Layering different types of libraries (like strings from VSL and Xsample) is a different matter, because of the different xmap. I have not yet had this kind of need, so I’ve not yet thought to how to solve this issue. I often need composed instruments, made of different libraries, but playing in different moments of the score. This is easily solved with voices.

The main problem is letting the playback template configure a new/existing score. Which strings library should be applied? Dorico automatically selects the first one in the playback template (either it is the first endpoint configuration, or the first group in the same endpoint configuration).

My temporary solution is to create a separate endpoint configuration for each strings library. I would then move on top, in the playback template, the one I want to apply.

But here arises another issue: how to share playing techniques and playback techniques between endpoint configurations/libraries? In theory, if all the endpoint configurations are in the current playback template, they should be shared. I’m not sure this is happening, and I’m not sure if this is by design, or because of a bug.

Another hypothesis: I should apply the playback template to the project I’m working on to configure an endpoint template. Problem: if I’m working to a project including all strings libraries in different groups, all of them will take the same definition of the first endpoint configuration found in the playback template.

Possible solution: move the corresponding endpoint configuration on top in the playback template. But then, this means I’m editing a project containing only a single strings library; so, I don’t know how I can share playing and playback techniques with the other endpoint configurations/libraries…

Paolo

11

Ok, this is what was happening:

  • I edit the playing and playback techniques.
  • Save the endpoint configuration.
  • Delete and add again the edited endpoint configuration to the playback template.
  • Quit Dorico.
  • Open Dorico and the project.
  • Apply the playback template.
  • The techniques I edited are not there, or only partially there. Some techniques are duplicated, some have the older name.

This was very hard to explain.

Then,

  • I did what described above, and there was a huge mess between techniques.
  • I quit and reopen a second time Dorico, and the project.

Some of the edited techniques were there, some not.

My hint was that other endpoint configurations are conflicting with the one I’m editing. After checking (by removing and editing the various endpoint configurations), I can confirm it was a problem of conflicting endpoint configurations. Some names were not exactly the same, and Dorico was confused when applying the playback template.

Paolo