Decoding Mid Side Recording

I am using LE1 to record saxophone quartet in stereo. I’ve used small diphragm cardioids in X-Y up to now with sort of OK results, but I’ve read that mid-side recording is a better technique for this purpose and will not only produce more effective stereo but will also give more control over the stereo image in the processing stage.

I have large diphragm cardioid and figure 8 mikes so I can mike up for a mid-side recording, but I’m not sure if I can decode them in LE1. I think the usual mid-side technique is to duplicate the side track and then put one of them out of phase but I’m not sure what you do after that, or even whether I can do it at all in LE1.

Any advice on how to, (or if it’s possible to), process a mid-side recording in LE1 would be most welcome. Thanks in advance.

Either as you said already:
-Duplicate the Side track, polarity-reverse the duplicate, pan the original hard left, the duplicate hard right, link the faders, done.
-Instead of duplicating the side signal use a postfader send, to a mono group (send level 0 dB), polarity-reverse the signal of the group track, pan sending track hard left, pan group track hard right. set group track fader to 0. Due to the post fader send, moving the volume on the side track will change the volume on the group track by the same amount.
-Use a plugin like Voxengo MSED (free)

Hey thanks. The first method sounds pretty simple and you can obviously control the ‘depth’ of the stereo image with the linked faders, very neat, and much more control than X-Y I should imagine. I’ll definitely try that next recording session.

The second method sounds a bit more challenging for a relatively new Cubase user like me but thanks for the explanation, I’ll certainly have a look at that too.

Thanks again for your help and advice, much appreciated.

There’s something strange going on !! The Voxengo plugins look pretty neat, thanks very much for the link.

I downloaded the MSED and EQ plugins from the Voxengo website and unzipped them both into the VSTplugins folder, expecting them both to show as master and insert effects and maybe sends too if they were written for send effects. But only the Voxengo EQ plugin is listed in Devices/Master Effects and in the channel Insert Effects lists, no sign of the MSED plugin in either Master Effects or Insert Effects. Neither is available in Devices/Send Effects.

I’ve had this trouble with other downloaded VST plugins, where some have been recognized and some not. Is this an LE1 quirk or is it a problem in the downloaded plugins? It’s very frustrating in either case.

I don´t know, but LE1 is very old What OS are you running.?

Yes I realize I’m using a pretty old version, but my recording requirements are very basic and it does everything I want with good results, so I’ve never bothered to upgrade. I’m using Windows XP 32 bit with a Lexicon Lambda interface.

I’ve dropped the Voxengo support desk a query on it in the hope that they might come up with something.

Well, I just wanted to know, if you´re maybe using a non supported OS which might give a hint on the problem you´re experiencing. Apart from that IMHO everyone should use what works for him, no matter how old or new or trendy…
Usually there shouldn´t be a distinction between send insert and master FX, so that really sounds strange, but I don´t really have too much experience with LE 1, sorry.

No worries.

It’s gets even stranger though - when Cubase is loading I’m certain that the MSED plugin flashes up in the small print of the loading window, it’s very fast but I’m sure it’s there. MSED is also listed in the Plugin Information List - so on the face of it it’s in there somewhere !! With a bit of luck Voxengo may have some suggestions.

Thanks very much for your interest and your time anyway.

PS: No help from Voxengo - here’s their reply. Any idea what version of VST LE1 is running?

_Greetings,

I have no idea what may be wrong. Cubase LE seems to be a quite dated
application - latest Voxengo plug-ins require VST2.4 support to run
properly.

Best regards,
Aleksey Vaneev
http://www.voxengo.com/
_

3rd party .dlls should go in a user-created VSTPlugins folder in the main Steinberg Program folder, not in the Cubase VSTPlugins folder.

There are V1 and V2 of Voxengo plugs, which are you using?

3rd party .dlls should go in a user-created VSTPlugins folder in the main Steinberg Program folder, not in the Cubase VSTPlugins folder

It doesn’t make any difference where these dlls are. I’ve put them in a separate folder as you sugest, I’ve put them in the VST plugins folder and I’ve put them in their own Voxengo folder in the VST plugins folder. In each case the Gliss EQ is listed and works fine and in each case the MSED is not listed.

What if you create a surround audio track? Is the plug available then?

I don´t think any other than the full version of Cubase allows surround tracks or busses…?

IIRC, LE1 & 4 support surround. :wink:

Well, didn´t know that… Strange Essential / Studio 4 and 5 and LE 5 don´t…

OK, after pestering Voxengo with a few more emails I think I finally got them to admit that there is a difference between the Gliss EQ and MSED plugins I downloaded.

Voxengo said that Gliss EQ’s reported FX is ‘effect’, but MSED’s reported FX is ‘specializer’ and they believe that Cubase LE1 is not recognizing the ‘specializer’ tag. I confirmed this by looking again at the Plugins Information list and sure enough the MSED plugin is listed there as ‘specializer’ and is highlighted in blue whereas the EQ plugin is listed as ‘effect’ and is on a white backround like all the other effects.

The Voxengo chap who replied to me said that the MSED reported FX would be changed to ‘effect’ in a future update, but I don’t think I’ll hold my breath.

So it looks as though that’s the end of it. Thanks everyone for your interest and help on the post - much appreciated.