Deleting a VST instrument in a rack is needlessly hard and arcane.

Steinberg developers - you get a D- for lousy implementation of what should be a simple thing in any DAW - deleting something.

In most apps a button or icon marked “DELETE” or " - " or “remove”. or a contextual menu option to remote whatever needs removing…
but no.

When it comes to deleting a VST instrument like Halion SE from the VSTi rack- one has to go through an arcane process - of clicking in the instrument name - and then selecting “no instrument”…

erm… guys… maybe just adding a right-click menu feature - or a delete button might do it?

Instead of me spending hours today trying to figure out something that ought to be straightforward.

Am I in the ‘Bad Place’ ?

As a first time user of Cubase, this also got me! It’s also not included in the Groove 3 training I was doing, they show how to set up a rack VST, then I was stuck with it. As my DAW is not on the internet it took some time to figure out how to delete it, completely stumped, all other DAW’s handle this more obviously. I don’t think it’s a big thing once you realize how to do it though, just a different way.

Cubase does things differently, I think it’s worth it to get past the blocks, then you can enjoy it more. I like the way it works as it forces me to be sure about my decisions like deleting a track requires you to also press the shift button and delete.

What I find with Cubase is, as I work, I have a clipboard and when I come across blocks like this, I jot it down on the clipboard. Then when I am later on the net, I do a google search to find the answer. That has been the most successful way for me to learn quickly with the different way Cubase does things. I am not finding the manual much help, too slow to find what I’m looking for and not really a manual person really, and all the training videos I have, it’s difficult to locate the exact thing I need. The videos themselves can leave me stuck with something.

Really enjoying Cubase though, I’m finding the general editing, arrangement and production really good, very smooth, exact and robust. The sounds it comes with, both VST’ and plugins are great, I also use Komplete Ultimate 10 and it integrates really well with Cubase. My productions have definitely gone up a notch since switching. Love the GUI, that is what attracted me to Cubase, now I have it all light colored, how I like to work.

I can be indecisive and all over the place when producing music which makes everything more drawn out but with Cubase, it’s like it pushes me on. When I’ve recorded something, it sounds good straight away, I have little need to keep fiddling with it. It has a logical progression in production and forces you to be organized. Other DAW’s say “you can keep changing everything” and “sounds not quite there yet” but Cubase says “that’s finished now, move on to the next thing”, that’s how it feels anyway.

I can sort of see what you’re trying to say but:

  1. With GUI design, the most important thing to do is be consistent, and this is consistent with other places in Cubase. For example inserts. And other DAWs handle this in a similar way.

  2. The instrument rack is a rather advanced feature. I can’t imagine a novice using that.

    There are definitely improvements that need to be made in the Cubase GUI, but this issue is probably pretty far down the list.

The instrument rack is one of the most basic and most often used Cubase features and nothing “advanced” at all.

And something as simple and basic, as clicking and deleting it, should simply be standard without even thinking about it. If Steinberg can’t name a very valid reason not to have it, they should just implement it.

Have to say even as a long time user, removing a rack instrument still takes me a few moments to figure out. A simple “remove” button would make sense. And while there at it, it would be nice to have the remote devices section in Cubase bought into this century… but that’s a whole other can of worms :slight_smile:

Unless you need the advanced feature of multiple outputs (most instruments don’t even have multiple outputs), instrument tracks are the better way to use instruments than the instrument rack.

The reason it works the way it does is to achieve consistency.

I’m with the do a better job in deleting an VSTi from the rack crowd. A simple X on the rack header would work. Select an instrument hit X at the top and perhaps a confirmation to be sure you want to do this. But the notion that one has to go back to the menu of inserted instruments list to delete is not an easy thing for people to figure out. I had to look it up.

Absolutely ridiculous.
Go read the manual before you use pro software.

Its just about lazyness and lack of ability to prepare accordingly.

Having said that: Yes, could be improved.

But not worth a lengthy complaint.

Just my 2 cents worth

I used to feel the same way, but it has the advantage that accidentally removing a plugin is very unlikely. That alone makes me rethink my former adversity.

If they redid Remote Control of VST/VSTi’s and improved the workflow of selecting multiple outputs from the plugin’s menu (see how Studio One handles this), I’d never use the VSTi rack at all.

If they were building Cubase from scratch today, I don’t think they’d ever even consider having a separate instrument rack. There would be instrument tracks, and remote controls, output selection, etc. would all be managed via other, more efficient means.

In a more general sense, I think the “No Effect” and “No Instrument” things are indeed confusing compared to just being to hover your mouse over an instrument/effect and click the delete key, which would be much faster.

If you agree that it could be improved, then shouldn’t we talk about it? It’s not going to fix itself by ignoring it. Or get on Steinberg’s radar as something to look at if there is radio silence.

My primary job-function at my day-job is process improvement and the first step is to identify a problem or area of opportunity, and when it comes to customer-experience and customer-facing products, you do that by listening to your customer feedback in the various channels you have available (surveys, social media, forums, emails, phone calls, etc.). Also, never assume that a change doesn’t warrant lengthy discussion. If you limit discussion, you may be missing certain use-cases (standard and non-standard) or may miss out on better ideas, or even fail to gain a better understanding of the root cause problem.

Where do you think I looked it up? Answer, in the manual.
One reason that it is a problem as is because if you don’t know how to do it it may occur to one that Cubase wont allow it. For a new user or one that comes from another DAW it happens that not all DAWs have all the same features.

I recently discussed this here. There is a UI inconsistency insofar as clicking the “Rack” drop-down only allows loading of VSTis, selecting “No VST Instrument” does nothing, but click on the name of the VSTi to the right of the freeze button – the same drop-down list appears, but now you can select “No VST Instrument” and the instance will unload. So, this is a list item that has no function in one context, and, as loading and unloading VSTi’s is a core function, it needs to be more clearly implemented.

I have to admit, this brought a tear of nostagia to my eye, harking back to the old, old forum, where noobs would be shredded for breakfast before sunrise on the high altar of pretention, just for the sheer fun of it.

I haven’t been able to find any reference in the manual which would tell a new user how to unload a VSTi.

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Reading the manual isn’t as quick as googling the problem I have found. Some people are also not manual people, In addition, when I have consulted the manual for blocks like these, I have been unable to find the solution.

If you google something like “how to delete rack VST’s in cubase” you will find lots of people have asked the same question and the answers are immediately there.

However, the fact that so many people ask this same question is an indication in itself that a simpler more orthodox mechanism might be better, like a delete cross or whatever…

Removing an instrument from the rack always takes me a little while. Finding the Allen key first, unplugging the cables etc all the while taking care not to scratch anything. VSTi should not be like this.

To the uninitiated its not clear/straightforward. A clearly identifiable dedicated ‘remove from rack’ would be logical. But hey, this is Steinberg.

Hi all,

let me return to a patient smile :slight_smile:. I would never shredder noobs or anybody else :slight_smile:.
To me the issue at hand is one of the most minor things that should be improved in cubase. This is the main reason for my spontanuous “outcry”.

I must admit, though, that the habbit of gathering information (be it via manuals, via googling, via Videos) seems to get lost universally. A general trend - not only here - I see it in my profession and all around. Everything - no matter how trivial - is expected to be answered in a “realtime chat-mode”. Ability to wait for something gets lost, other ways of finding solutions as well.
A general trend, that touches me - I admit. It comes along with a diminishing ability to read text with understanding.

So :slight_smile:… all this is not a big thing. And yes, if Steinberg decides to make this easier - fine.

Peace :slight_smile:

I have been using Cubase for years and still fell foul of this a while back. The default action is to try hitting the delete key or if that doesn’t work right click and delete. I still try that now until I remember or at times don’t remember and have to look around again.

On a side note, I’ve always felt it would be pretty awesome if we could load any and as many instrument tracks (for example, 3 kontakts, 2 omnispheres and 6 Serums), and SAVE them as a preset on the rack itself.

Then there’ll be an option to “Load Rack Preset” or something to that same effect. Oh wells.

Wow, been using DAWs since 1992 (and straight up sequencers synced to analogue reels or decks since the mid 80s). Never had a problem with this. Nothing wrong with pointing out an idea for improvement to the UI, but I wouldn’t throw up ‘other DAWs’ work flow as rationale for implementing it. In time, you’ll learn that Cubase has quite a few things that no other DAW on the market even tries to touch yet (and probably never will). In time, you’ll also discover that very few DAWs on the market offer as many work-flow options (methods, editors, track types/styles).

On bringing the Remote Device portion into the ‘century’, they could do it, and that would be a SAD DAY, because then 50+ years worth of legacy support just might go out the window. The ability to build your own (if sysex, RPN/NRPN events, etc. are required) pretty much goes away, or turns into a nightmare of ‘hoping’ instrument developers include files or profiles/drivers with the device, and when they don’t, the voodoo required to ‘make your own’ is rarely documented.

Quite a few studios keep Cubase around for the simple reason that newer DAWs on the scene cannot cope with mounds of very fine equipment that have been released over the decades, at all. Also, a lot of newer DAWs try to duplicate things we’ve simply done with better suited plugins, outboard gear, or the instruments themselves for…well…decades now. It’s also kind of nice that we can still get Cubase up and running on rather old hardware, with a fraction of the cores and memory that newer DAWs often require. In Cubase, you can still remote control ultra fine parameters of an actual Yamaha DX7 from nine-teen-eighty-weird right there in the track inspector…try that with other DAWs…

On putting out demands for ‘new features’ over reading manuals and being flexible with work-flow… I see people screaming all the time about wanting to oscillate a band of frequencies with an LFO on an EQ plugin with a VST controller lane. Suggest just using a notch-filter plugin that has LFO built in instead, and they look at you funny. Suggest implementing the ‘effect’ through the VSTi’s built slate of effects instead, and they pound their chest, “Umm no! The DAW should pump this control…not the plugin itself!” Suggest investing in something like Bidule, that has very flexible comb filtering abilities, and so much more…and, “Oh no! I shouldn’t have to use anything third party…EVER!” Suggest just using a MIDI LFO insert to generate a static curve, then copy and paste that into the VST automation lane (thus saving some CPU cycles), and oh lord…no, no, no. Old workflows must GO.

I’m all for adding some of these things to Cubase, but we have deeper issues…little bugs, and power user utilities that in my humble opinion should take priority. Different teams work on different aspects of the total package, but in the end, dev time and assignments have to be spread out. If we already have plugins and stuff that can do it, just as well, or even BETTER with a different thought process, or an adapted work flow…it’s worth considering.

FUlly agreed Brian Roland!