Hi everyone,
just to make sure I haven’t overlooked anything: There’s still no native solution to have different clefs in parts and transposing score, right?
Most threads point to either transposing vs. concert layouts or to clef overrides – but they don’t seem to be of much help with explicit clef changes. Am I missing something?
I wonder why it hasn’t been introduced yet, it’s common practice in order to save vertical space in the full score (same goes for 8va lines).
It’s especially annoying when condensing is involved, as Dorico seems to just use the clef of the upper instrument (e.g. relatively high Horn 3 & low Horn 4).
Does this do the job you’re looking for?
Thanks for the link, Daniel!
I’m afraid it does not help in this case though. If I understand correctly the transposition override only helps when you want different default clefs. It won’t have any impact on clef changes you’ve deliberately put in yourself…
@Nick777 No, there’s no functionality for this at present.
@DanielMuzMurray Your second link refers to setting different clefs dependent on whether the layout is transposed or at concert pitch. The OP explained very clearly that both the score and the part are transposed.
Thanks for confirming, @pianoleo!
Do you know if there’s some sort of common workaround for cases like this?
Only the method employed in other programs: to have a separate player that has a part layout but isn’t assigned to the score layout (or is hidden by way of Manual Staff Visibility).
In Dorico cues are dynamic, so you could cue from one player to the other, then marquee select the whole part layout (within Engrave mode - Dorico may think about this for a few seconds) and then scale everything back up to Normal size from the properties panel. At least that way, if you make subsequent changes to the score stave they’ll update automatically in the part (although you’ll need to go back into the part to scale them up to Normal again).
If there is any interest in this, I would like to see this feature in the future of dorico.
For big scores with multiple condensed staves and especially for frame/system break where you need to change the clef (But not necessarily in the part in that particular bar) .
As there is now the option to show cleff in tranposed/concert pitch, it could be an option to show the clef in general score /part.
Thanks
I’ve stumbled upon this issue tonight.
Piano Trio, both score and part layouts are transposed pitch.
I need the cello to have a specific clef in the score to respect the source, and another one in the part that is better for modern performance.
Problem is, the clef change needs to be at the same rhythmical place.
In Sibelius, I would add a clef change to the part layout and that would not add the clef change to the score, allowing for virtually infinite flexibility.
Is something like this possible in Dorico currently?
Since it doesn’t make any difference if any layout is transposed or concert in this specific case, I even tried to set the score to transposed and the part to concert but editing that clef in part still wreaks havoc in the score. Even the Hide property seems to be a hit-and-miss thing. I have scope set to Locally but it doesn’t seem to make a real difference here.
Is there a reliable way that doesn’t involve creating a new player not included in the score like @pianoleo suggested? If not, I will simply make a “parts score” and be done with it, but I would like to avoid it, if possible.
One could also copy the cello part to a new flow and do whatever magic you need to that version.
Although Dorico does not allow you to change to different clefs in the score and part at the same rhythmic position, you can achieve the desired effect by having the clef changes occur at slightly different rhythmic positions. Put the cello part in concert pitch, add the clef change in the score at the desired rhythmic position and set it to only show in transposed pitch, and add the clef change in the part at a slightly earlier rhythmic position and set it to only show in concert pitch. Keep in mind that although the rhythmic grid resolution cannot be set finer than a 32nd note, two different rhythmic positions can be as close as a 1024th note apart.
I see, but how would you then make that excerpt fit into the previous pagination?
This sounds like it comes from the Office for Complicating Simple Stuff (Italian joke) 
I believe I will just make a “parts score”, which also prevents any accidental slip to affect the score. For example: if I switch off a slur offset in a part, it will switch off in the score as well, even if the scope is local. One needs to remember to alter the value, not the state of the switch.
The additional flow would contain a duplicate of the entire cello part with the clef altered to suit. I expect the part would be paginated the same way the corresponding part in the original flow would.
For a single movement work it could be done, but this is a piano trio with five movements. Too much hassle, but thank you for suggesting it!