Direct Monitoring/Monitoring Problem

I am not sure where to post this.

I just purchased an UR824. I want to use it with my band for playing live, we are using a playback with additional stuff, a clicktrack (for me, the drummer, I have a Laptop on my side) and we did it with a small 4-out Interface up to now.

I now want to set up a 4 way monitoring solution for combining the Laptop stuff with in ear monitoring.

So I connect Kick, Snare, Overheads, Bass, Guit, Vox and one E-Violin (using split boxes) to the 8 Inputs.

On Out 1/1 I have my in-ear.
On Out 3/4 the playback goes to the FOH
On Out 5, 6, 7 the other band members will receive their monitoring, most likely only in mono (exept the singer with stereo reverb, maybe)…

Ok… I purchased the UR824 to have Latency free DSP processing while monitoring, some compression and stuff…

In addition I need to add “regular” FX to the playback, directly in Cubase - Delays synced to the tempo track for example for the vocals - controlled via automation along the playback…

Now the latency free monitoring only works with “direct monitoring” activated. So far so god. But now my “regular” monitoring is not working… for example send-FX inside the mixer. When I disable direct monitoring I have no benefit from those fiddly to use DSP plugins because I now have regular latency.

For some reason this latency is quite high - on my windows Studio PC I have only 1,5 ms in and 2 ms out at 64 samples - now I have something about 5 in and 6 out ore something like that… almost unusable.

The problem is that the DSP Mixer from that UR 824 will not work when I have Cubase open - so I am not able to use regular DSP monitoring beside Softwaremonitoring - like I can do with ANY OTHER interface in the world…

How can I use Direct Monitoring together with Software Monitoring (Delays, Automation, other Plugins etc)…?

This is necessary. In the same time I am not able to route the UR 824 DSP Reverb to all 4 Stereo Outs… Only to one. Ok, maybe this is a topic for the UR-Hardware forum… I will post over there as well…

Thanks for any hint!

Brandy

Sounds like, with the Steiny interfaces, you’re stuck with one or the other—DM or SM.

Are you able to send it back and get an RME instead? This setup would be a breeze with the TotalMix FX software.

As for routing, can you send the reverb on cue mixes to all the stereo outs?

yes it seems that I am stuck… I am trying everything… no way…

The reverb (the one included via DSP) I can only send to cue outs when switching of DM… that way the signal is in the FX return channel and can be processed or send to cue… if it is accessed via DM “internal” I can route it via an integrated feature TO ONLY ONE STEREO OUT AT THE TIME. I tried all kind of modifier keys, but that checkbox enables only one time.

well… I still hope I am missing something… Otherwise it would be a shame. I will send it back… The bad thing here is - it is bundled with Cubase Full Version (a special bundle for a very good price) - I need the additional Cubase licence because I do not want to carry my Studios eLicencer with me all the time… well and I already registered and activated the Cubase Licence as well as the included software etc. But I am sure there would be a way to send it back because I JUST CAN NOT USE it the way I wanted… I only purchased it for this one single task… Well, but maybe I am missing something, lets hope…

I want it TotalMix FX style. With some Cubase Magic ad on.

Aw, lame. :frowning:

The reverb (the one included via DSP) I can only send to cue outs when switching of DM… that way the signal is in the FX return channel and can be processed or send to cue… if it is accessed via DM “internal” I can route it via an integrated feature TO ONLY ONE STEREO OUT AT THE TIME. I tried all kind of modifier keys, but that checkbox enables only one time.

That’s crazy.

well… I still hope I am missing something… Otherwise it would be a shame. I will send it back… The bad thing here is - it is bundled with Cubase Full Version (a special bundle for a very good price) - I need the additional Cubase licence because I do not want to carry my Studios eLicencer with me all the time… well and I already registered and activated the Cubase Licence as well as the included software etc. But I am sure there would be a way to send it back because I JUST CAN NOT USE it the way I wanted… I only purchased it for this one single task… Well, but maybe I am missing something, lets hope…

Complicated! You might have to shell out a bit more to get the RME. But, they are infallible, perfectly-built interfaces. I wouldn’t think of getting anything else.

I want it TotalMix FX style. With some Cubase Magic ad on.

Yeah, man. Good luck! Let us know how you solve this. I"ve often thought about using Cubase in live rigs.

Hey thanks for your words… helped me quite some - I was very frustrated last night!
Well, I will do some more research and let you know…

I am using Cubase live since a while and I have no problems so far. It is live basically a “playlist” with tempotrack, playback tracks and click… But in the creative process I can use it quite efficiently.

There is one thing which is bothering me:

I have to carry the eLicenser with me: That means - when leaving the studio for rehearsing I have to make sure not forgetting it otherwise I am screwed. And then I have to make sure not to loose or break it, otherwise I will be screwed in the studio.

Well, I tried Logic now and here it seems that I am able to use the UR824 like I want. Because now I can use the dsp mixing app (like TotalMix) - in the background for basic routing and processing - and Logic for Software monitoring candy and stuff.

Oh and I do not need that eLicenser.

But I want to use Cubase because I am used to it. It seems that this is a misdesigned concept and I am locked out.

I have to talk to the dealer regarding a return… Yea - I will have a look at RME as well as UAD… but in the sum this will be expensive - The interface plus Cubase… maybe I should just buy a cheap third party interface and use cheap and dongle free Cubase LE… there are quite some units available below 400 eur…

Yeah. The dongle… I can’t blame Steinberg for sticking with it; piracy is rampant. But, there aren’t many companies still using hardware dongles. You could get a second eLicenser …

So the IT works better with Logic. Wow. Steinberg needs to offer the ability to decouple the UR mix software from Cubase!

And you can’t get away with just software-monitoring, eh?

Yeah. Even a used RME 800 and full version if Cubase would set you back nearly 2 Large!

Yea I have two eLicensers… One for Nuendo and one for Cubase… but the damn thing is, that if I need to unplug the Cubase one (for going into the rec-room, practicing drums for example) I have to close Nuendo otherwise I will get a serious Crash… often I just use the time when I am exporting mixdowns or stuff… So I basically need THREE dongles :slight_smile:

Mh I am just wondering how other people handle the UR in a regular recording scenario… How is it possible to use for example Guitar Rig… via Software Monitoring - when you will kill in the same time your whole monitoring setup because you have to disable DM and re-setup a full SR setup… instead just using for example the DSP mixer for the basic setup (Talkback, live drums) and just SR with just a track armed with Guitar Rig for the scratch Guitar…

Maybe a Steinberg Official could jump in explaining the situation a bit.

If there is no solution the whole concept is just CRAP. Sorry to say that.

Mh, have to add… well no - that UR works perfect with Cubase… But it sucks big time that I can not use the DSP Mixer when Cubase is open - so the limitation is that I ONLY can use DM in Cubase (or software monitoring instead of)…

Another limitation is that all monitoring disappears completely when I close a project… maybe during creative work… It would be perfect to just “hear” the other bandmembers still when preparing a fresh project or working on a scratch song with just an idea in it… I will have to set up the full monitoring first in the project…

Not very creative/intuitive…

I was not aware about the fact that I can not use DSP monitoring (latency free) in the same time with Software monitoring in advance of my purchase…

Regarding Software Monitoring…

this would be the way to go. BUT… latency… in the studio I have with 64 samples 1,5 ms in and 2,3 ms out… Fine!

It is a win 7 PC with RME Raydat.

On the Macbook with the UR I have with 64 samples about 5 or 6 in and 6 or 7 out (I am not in front of it)… I can bring it down a little by going to 96khz… but I would fear CPU spikes and for live a want a solid solid solid system… no clicks n pops please… So 128 or 256 samples would be fine - but unusable regarding latency. Snare on the in ear will sound like “Brrreck” instead of “back”…

Why is latency that high? I was under the impression that 64 samples buffer is 64 samples buffer…

Running at super-high sampling rates are gonna drag down the system. I bet you’d be able to get acceptable SW monitoring at 44.1!

This post http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=157&t=57510 suggests, I think, that all four cue mixes can get the ReV-X, although with some routing limitations. Is that how you read it? I haven’t tried that.

At a live performance, I don’t see any reason to have 96k sample rates. I bet if you reduce to 44.1, Cubase’s SW monitoring will improve

I am losing my cookies on this one … I could have sworn that a few weeks ago I was able to (with Direct Monitoring on) hear in my cans: a) RevX, b) Inserts on the track ( I used a heavy distortion as an insert to easily identify its presence/absence, rather than your tempo sync’d delay) - with “zero-latency”.

Now, for the life of me, I’m in the situation you describe you are in - I can’t do “b) Inserts on the track (e.g., my heavy distortion)”, with “zero-latency” if direct monitoring is on.

Don’t know what to say about that, will need to go back and try again. I seem to remember it had something to do with making sure “Cue 2” instead of Mix was highlighted/lit in the Control Room panel. I have done that but it still isn’t working like I thought it used to, maybe there are multiple places to toggle that.



As above, I thought at one point I could use “DSP monitoring (latency free) in the same time with Software monitoring” … but since I can’t reproduce that now, you may be right. I’m going to keep trying, will post back if I find anything different.

By default, if you’re Direct Monitoring, you can’t be hearing any plugins.

Understood, but not strictly accurate, using the UR28M you can easily check this out by putting a plug-in into the Control Room insert slot, and you can hear it with Direct Monitoring activated.

What I can no longer do, which I thought I could do (which is where I may be mistaken), was to hear the plug-in when placed in a normal channel’s insert slot (not just from CR).

Neat. Ok. I’ve gone as far as I can go without ever having used a Steinberg interface. I’ll let you guys figure it out. :wink: