Do we know what causes scroll lag?

Cubase
21

hmmmm interesting, could have sworn I got improvements with a better NVIDIA card.

I don’t know too much about this, but there are some OpenGL debuggers, not sure.

Debugging Tools - OpenGL Wiki (khronos.org)

also

Does OpenGL use GPU?

OpenGL (Open Graphics Library) is a cross-language, cross-platform application programming interface (API) for rendering 2D and 3D vector graphics. The API is typically used to interact with a graphics processing unit (GPU), to achieve hardware-accelerated rendering.

Does OpenGL use GPU or CPU?

An application program written to use the OpenGL API is the “client” and runs on the CPU. The implementation of the OpenGL graphics engine (including the GLSL shader programs you will write) is the “server” and runs on the GPU.

But you’re saying this isn’t the case for Cubase, or I’m just reading it wrong?

22

I am trying this right now. I made an application profile for the standalone version, but alas, it makes no difference at all. When I turn off the animations (meters etc), the situation is improved by a lot, but still not ideal. I can’t understand how some simple segmented meters can wreak so much havoc.

3 Likes
23

Correct. But neither in Windows, when using the standalone .exe.
So my guess, it must be related to the coding.

PS:
Cubase itself uses the GPU correctly, when scrolling around the project window and doing stuff inside the program.

1 Like
24

Is it like a complete freeze for a second or so? I’ve seen it since C12 but not at all related to what I’m doing.

I wondered if it was related to the new licensing, like there’s a dongle check in there which is timing out or something, or related to the MIDI Remote. Because never saw it pre C12.

25

Yes. I know when it is auto-saving, it freezes everything for a couple of seconds and then moves on. This is more subtle and happens for minutes at a time, yet freezes nothing. The FPS just simply dips. Sometimes it will go an hour without it happening. It’s completely random.

26

To those saying it’s a plugin: It happens in a completely blank session.

To those saying graphics card drivers: I already said in the original post that they are up to date. And to my knowledge, Cubase doesn’t utilize GPU. I’ll happily be proven wrong, but I believe I remember a Steinberg employee proving that true at least a year or two ago.

27

Virus scan?

Dropbox? or any kind of syncing software?

backup?

Is your computers power supply spec’d properly?

Check computer temperature?

Did you do any tweaks to your mobo?

DIY built computer, or store bought?

The fact it only happens sometimes, makes me think it’s something else on your system periodically kicking in.

As I’ve said in the past… and some people don’t like me for it… reformatting and starting from scratch, incrementally testing things as you install/update… it really eliminates a lot of possibilities. It has fixed graphic related performance for me in the past.

Have you monitored what your computer hardware is doing/behaving when this problem occurs?

Getting all your computer specs could be helpful.

1 Like
28

This is easily testable, by opening a bigger project and scrolling around like nuts:

image
image1326×308 21.1 KB

Cubase definitely uses the GPU in that case as the usage goes up (not by much, but still).

29

You see the GPU usage increase because there are pixels changing colors on the screen, so the GPU has to create new frames out of the data it receives from the CPU, but it does not mean it uses the GPU for doing the computation, Cubase still uses the CPU for this, hence the 34.2% usage shown on the screenshot.
This isn’t like in a game where it would use DirectX and all the 3D stuff and lighting is computed directly inside the GPU.

Your image shows 11% usage, but 11% of what ? When a GPU doesn’t have a high computation load, its clock drops down drastically, so it’s probably 11% out of 300 MHz, whereas the max frequency can be 1700 MHz, so in reality if you compare those 11% to the full capabilities of the GPU, it is only 1 or 2%.
Watch a video on YouTube and the GPU usage will also increase, yet it does not make any computation apart from refreshing the screen. Same when moving windows around, the Desktop Window Manager process will show GPU usage, but the rendering is done by the CPU, whose usage increases too…

30

Don’t forget that many plugins will be using GPU acceleration, even if Cubase itself isn’t - I’m guessing that also shows up as GPU% within the Cubase.exe on windows task monitor?

Must say, never checked! :slight_smile:

31

Thanks for the explanation! But I also never said it uses the GPU directly :wink:
If you have some general issues with your GPU, this could also result in lags.

1 Like
32

Wait are we back to GPUs now? :laughing:

33

Half of the topic is about GPUs here :smile:
You’re probably thinking about that topic:
Cubase 12 performance is a nightmare - Cubase - Steinberg Forums

34

It’s all turning into a blur :exploding_head:

2 Likes
35

Virus scan is all optimised to avoid Cubase, plugins, and hard drives with samples on it. Power supply is solid. I have a self built computer, but have had it for 3 years now. Problem only started occuring this year. But I hope you are right, and that it is a hardware thing. Because that’s something actually fixable on my end. I DID get a new graphics card 6 months ago which now has me thinking… however I do keep the drivers up to date so if something is broken there, it would be really unfortunate.

Here are my specs if it helps though:

Windows 11 (Latest Build)
AMD Ryzen 7 12 Cores
Asus Tuf Gaming Plus Motherboard
64 GB Ram 3200mhz
AMD 6700XT GPU
1TB Samsung 870 Evo m.2

36

I mean as soon as you start fn with things it could make it worse, but you could try an older gfx driver, or simply reinstalling the latest one. who knows.

You have Windows gaming mode on or off?

It’s not overheating?

can you get an FPS counter, or Windows game thingy might have one.

How do we know it’s not a screen/graphics refresh rate problem? That could look like lag. Screens within themself have lag.

37

I dont know but i have this problem myself and im also using Windows 11 latest update and i think it has to do with the latest update. Text below is a statement from Microsoft.

Microsoft is now writing that some games and apps may experience poor performance or stuttering on version 22H2 of Windows 11. This was first noticed by Mspoweruser.

Affected games and apps will inadvertently access the GPU’s debugging functionality, which is not intended for consumer users.

The error will affect some users and as a result these will no longer be offered the automatic update for the time being.

Microsoft writes that they are now working to fix the whole thing. Those already affected by the issue may be able to work around it by making sure their games and apps are updated to the latest version.

1 Like
38

This might be the answer we are looking for.

39

Because it only happens with a specific software and with its own window. Explain me how I can put several programs side by side and have all of their windows refresh smoothly at 165 Hz, but the one Cubase window will stutter and drop frames ? This is clearly not a screen/graphics problem, but a program specific issue. That’s the reality. My screen has G-Sync and I have zero tearing and zero stuttering whatsoever. Only the programs that are themselves limited are the problem.

I agree with that, but if that was the case, if would affect the actual screen/display globally, and not be program/window dependent. The main topic here is still about Cubase/VST :slight_smile:

According to @Tj99 , the issue is also present with standalone plugins and with other DAWs.
In fact, a DAW is basically one big modular plugin since all the code is based on VST. You can easily verify this by browsing though the Cubase folders, there are many files referring to “VST” for the various components. Same as standalone plugins, it’s just a VST host that hosts the plugin.

In all those cases, VST is involved.
I’ve been thinking about it for a moment and I believe the issue comes from VST exclusively, and not OpenGL. Many programs use OpenGL and don’t exhibit this behavior. VST uses OpenGL but the way it is implemented is buggy. I then came to the conclusion that all the VST instances are all sharing the same OpenGL thread. This totally explains why the graphical performance issues would be interconnected between all of those VST applications.

And one last thing :
In Cubase (or any other VST hosts, including standalone), when opening a “buggy” GPU accelerated plugin, the CPU usage will increase greatly, but this increase seems fixed, because when you open any additional buggy plugin at the same time, the CPU usage will not increase any further, it only does that one time when at least one “buggy” plugin is open. For me it means that the VST code tells the “VST OpenGL” thread to do some buggy stuff, and since all VST instances use the same OpenGL instance, it can go into the buggy state only one time and stays like this, reason why the increase in CPU usage is fixed.

Again, many programs use OpenGL and don’t exhibit this behavior, so it is very likely that the problem is related to VST.

40

A little update: I was able to reproduce this problem in a consistent way finally. I use two monitors, one for my edit timeline and one for the mixer. When I click the mixer (make it the active window), and switch back to the timeline (make it the active window), it will stutter and lag for up to 20 seconds. This happens consistently enough for me to think that it has something to do with whatever the active window is at the time lagging for the first 20 seconds or so of being activated. It’s like it takes some time for it to process that I have switched Windows.

The wild thing is, when the mixer window is active, but I scroll on the timeline without clicking, it is smooth sailing. It’s only when I click the timeline window to activate it.