Does anyone else consider real-time MIDI recording critical?

Loving the potential of Dorico (though it’s currently not playing nice with my 2009 Mac Pro/El Capitan with 32 GB RAM and solid state hard drive - crashes regularly). But I’m just wondering if I’m the only one who regards the current lack of real-time MIDI recording as a bit of a dealbreaker, or if I’m in the minority (and also where this feature is on the “to do” list)…thanks!
D.D. Jackson

Considering how poorly the comparable “Hyperscribe” MIDI-recording & transcription works in Finale, I’m not surprised that this is not a top priority on the Dorico roadmap. Getting the quantization accurate enough for the live MIDI entry to be useful is an incredible challenge.

I’m fine with how it works at least in Sibelius 7.5. I’m primarily interested in having the option of setting a default quantization value, starting a metronome, and recording in real-time single-note lines - nothing fancy; yet this has always been a huge timesaver for me vs. any sort of step input (and I’m presuming I’m not the only more playing-oriented composer/notator out there?)

  • D.D. Jackson

Finale not withstanding, I’m pretty sure it works OK in Sibelius (within the limitations of quantizing.)

While I use the feature from time to time, it isn’t a deal-breaker–just a disappointment that its missing. Currently I capture my notes in Cubase and send it back as a midi file to Dorico. It would certainly be nice to hear my capture in the score context (again, like Sibelius has already implemented.) If the Cubase workflow was better implemented, I would personally consider it a non-issue.

Interestingly, I can’t help but believe that due to the flexibility of Dorico’s insert mode, fixing all the quirks would comparably very easy once the input was made.

(FWIW, I’d happily use the feature.)

Well, it probably works OK on something as simple as that example, but I could type that into Dorico using the computer keyboard in a fraction of “real time”.

Real time MIDI input might be useful Dorico in Play Mode, but personally I’ve never found it much use for notation. Either the notation is too complicated for it to handle, or it’s so simple it’s quicker to input it a different way.

A great challenge indeed, but Notation Composer is light years ahead of the pack in this regard. (Sorry for repeating myself) Solid musicXml export too. Good Dorico companion. Overture 5 is probably a good 2nd, but a fixed split point for keyboard entry smells funny in 2017…

Real-time MIDI is certainly something that we hope to add in a future version. However, as noted by others, implementing MIDI recording is one thing. Doing it well is quite another (especially when it comes to multiple staves and voices). We have high hopes for our MIDI transcription in the fullness of time, and we’ve got some other exciting ideas for how we can improve on regular live MIDI recording.

I certainly don’t doubt that, Paul. While on the subject it’s worth reminding everyone of the realtime algorithms used by MOTU’s Freestyle sequencer and the last versions of Composer’s Mosaic, back in the days of Windows 98. Still outperforms everything…

As a composer who often also works regularly in Logic (and also as a performer on piano, etc.), step entry just isn’t the same experience (even with the inherent comparative imperfections found in basic realtime entry in programs like Sibelius). It’s just hard when you are getting down an initial idea to truncate/break it down via step time, while it’s (to me) much more musical and intuitive to just play something in with a click and then tweak (though I again wonder how common this view is?) Certainly, I look forward to Dorico adding some of this functionality in as soon as possible :slight_smile:

  • D.D. Jackson

I should add: even starting with single note and line entry to a quantization value using a click would be extremely welcome (and then building from there, much as you currently have some midi length, etc. editing but also have left room to add greater MIDI controller data editing later).

  • D.D. Jackson

A bit of a dealbreaker? OH NO!

My 2 cents: I write music, so I could not care less about a real-time MIDI entry. :slight_smile: My favorite composing (= writing) tools are Dorico and pencil & paper. Nothing beats good old pencil writing. But then again, nothing beats Dorico, either. Great team of great tools. :laughing:

When I need real-time recording – and I sure need it often –, I switch to a real DAW with all of its endless possibilities.

But there are (I’m presuming?) plenty of us who write regularly for t.v./film using programs like Logic and who are therefore used to having the option to start by “performing in” ideas as the most direct method and then tweaking afterwards. It’s certainly " writing", too (needless to say), but just starts more from a realtime entry perspective (before further tweaks), even if the end results are as ultimately involved as full orchestral scores, etc.

  • D.D. Jackson

Real time input isn’t there for notation as such, it’s for capturing ideas in a form that can develop into notation without redoing everything. It’s a great toy for accomplished performing musicians :slight_smile:

I love the ‘introspective’ MIDI recording feature of Cubase, and would love to see that get implemented in Dorico ASAP.

For people who are reading this that have never used Cubase (or don’t know it can do this), the gist of it is this:

You can set a maximum buffer size to keep up with all MIDI input. This buffer is maintained at all times (record does not need to be enabled, and it will even keep it if the DAW transport is rolling in playback mode).

At any time you can dump this buffer onto a part (starting at current cursor position) using a key combo, and in it goes, just exactly like you played it in.

I think it would be pretty cool to have an ‘introspective buffer lane’ in the Play mode of Dorico, with some simple trim, quantize and snapping tools to optionally check and edit the buffer before pasting it into a stave. Even better would be also making such a buffer possible to undock and keep floating as a window (during all modes) on the screen at the time and location of choice.

I most certainly would not call that writing, so “needless to say” is not so. Nothing wrong with the approach itself, though. But that is “real-time sketching” and after it, the writing (perhaps) starts. How thin is a piece of hair? :laughing:

I hadn’t heard of that “introspective” feature in Cubase but it indeed sounds powerful. Frankly, I’d also be happy if there was generally a way (in a future Dorico update) to not only record in realtime but to have Dorico preserve (and then retroactively allow the editing of) all the realtime controller MIDI data (vs. relying on “pre-programmed” interpretations of dynamic symbols, which always feels inexact as someone used to producing fully performed/tweaked final output in Logic). I actually still admire Overture for their success at least on this front…

You’re talking to a jazz musician here (someone who routinely improvises hour-long concerts to go with my work writing (and fully notating :slight_smile:) for tv/film) so I could definitely debate this point but won’t bother, since we all have different approaches (and perspectives).
D.D. Jackson

As I could in Sibelius. :unamused: In the flow of the conversation, the OP asked a straight forward question. The next post indicated that it didn’t work well in Finale. I was merely offering the insight and the link to a how-to so that others could see how it could be done (it’s not even my video, but it is a decent tutorial.) For the most part, I use the computer keyboard or write it on staffpad or even (horrors!) notate on paper. However, some folks find real-time MIDI useful; especially students with less theory under their belt. (Let 'em get toughen up on score paper like I did, I say!) :smiley:

I use rt transcription mostly to audition an idea with the score, such as DD is suggesting. I sometimes like to just improvise against the score and having the system capture that is bonus.

Is it a deal breaker? For me, no. Desirable? For others, yes. Real-time transcription is a common enough want that many products do it for just that reason.