I’m having trouble with IVP (Independent Voice Playback) and articulation switching in SSO (Spitfire Symphony Orchestra in Kontakt 8). Please no comments about the solo violin not truly being ‘solo’; I’m probably going to remove it since it’s not really a solo part.
My logic uses a two-channel system: Channel 1 for the “All Techniques” patch (Natural) and Channel 2 for the “Performance” patch (Legato). While this works flawlessly on a single-voice staff (Solo Violin), it breaks when IVP is enabled on Violin 1. Specifically, the playback gets stuck on pizzicato and refuses to reset to arco.
Routing: Solo Violin is on Instance 41; Violin 1 (IVP) is split across 42 and 43.
The Bug: Articulation changes in the last measure trigger correctly for the first change but fail to “reset” the KS/Channel when moving back to arco.
Has anyone encountered IVP “holding” a channel or expression map state and preventing a reset?
Update: I was going to attach my project, but when I hacked/sliced it down to the bare minimum to demonstrate, the track with IVP is now working. Any idea why it might have started working?
It appears I have some serious problems. When I suppress playback for 2nd Violins, Violas, Celli, and Basses, then Solo Violin and 1st Violins work fine. I’ve checked the routing and everything appears correct except somehow one of the 2nd Violin virtual staves is showing assigned as Violin 1 but it’s clear routed to the VST for 2nd Violins! I’m in a living you know what. Someone please help me sort this out!
any reason why you use different channels for “All techniques” and “performance patches”? I use channel 1 for both. I thought the whole point of the UACC system is that it always knows when to switch patches so there is no need to use separate channels. At any rate, I can’t reproduce your divisi issue that way.
See my reply to your conversation with Michael Johnson (
Spitfire SSO Solo Strings: How to trigger legato).
If anyone can help me figure out how to do the same legato triggering when using IVP, it would be greatly appreciated.
I’ve attached two test projects below:
Symphony 1 - SSO Test 1.dorico (everything appears to be working)
Symphony 1 - SSO Test 2.dorico (I think the only thing working correctly is the ‘solo violin’)
perhaps if you were to attach the project where the problem is reproducible, I or someone else might be able to see what’s going on. As you said that with it reduced to a bare minimum, it’s working fine just the same as for me, then there’s no much to go on. On the other hand, as it’s Kontakt 8 I won’t be able to test playback directly.as I don’t have that (without rerouting everything to K7)
As regards the discussion with Michel Johnston, I did answer that inasmuch as I explained how to get it to work for me. The solo strings are clearly an oddity in the SSO but that’s perhaps not surprising as they were added in a later update and are not full instruments (as regards articulations offered) the way the section strings are and don’t seem to be programmed the same way.
It’d be a simple matter to download Kontakt 8 and install it.You don’t have to use it for everything else. That way you wouldn’t have to reroute everything and set it up.
unfortunately it is not a simple matter of downloading Kontakt 8 and installing it. You now need to take out a trial sub with something called 360 Pro – no thanks. I’ll upgrade Kontakt when I see fit (which is unlikely to be v8).
Anyway, I did download your v2 and tried to reproduce what you described of your method but obviously with my own strings EM. It works fine. You could produce a version with Kontakt player v.8 which I did install if you like (otherwise I’ll uninstall that again as I have no need for it) which is perhaps the only way I’d be able to open your project and see where the problem lies. Unless there’s any other Dorician out there who has both the SSO and Kontakt 8 full.
FYI, I’m pretty sure Kontakt and Kontakt Playsr share the same plugin ID as they are really the same thing just with a different license. So there shouldn’t be a need to do a “Kontakt 8 player version” of that.
that’s what I was actually assuming originally. But when I load the project, it shows no VST – actually I suspect what’s happened is it’s been saved with Silence - which would explain the lack of Expression Maps and no exclamation marks around missing VST’s – simply a blank. Perhaps @rothvin could confirm. in which case it’s no use for what I want to look at and an export with K8 should then work.
ok – we’re both using Kontakt player it seems, so please check the uploaded version is also using it. We should in theory be seeing the same thing, I’d have thought?
if I just follow your screenshots, then – as expected – I hear nothing at all in the “natural” passages because you have mapped that to CC32,20 (I use note length parameters to switch between 1,42,50 and 52) which is what the legato performance patches use on a different channel (in my setup, it uses the same channel). Obviously there’s something else you’ve done which makes it work at all – you say only the divisi causes an issue --and if you really want to get some help, I don’t understand why you don’t just post the actual project which would stop all this guesswork…
the minimum does not require stripping out the instruments which seems to be what’s happened here – unless you have a different explanation why I see a project with no VST’s or Expression maps. I imagine if you posted the proper project, I would understand how your setup works.Anyway, it’s up to you whether you want help or not - for me, the SSO works without major issues, though I doubt anyone knows everything about how to use it optimally in Dorico and every symphony I work on can bring new challenges.
So, technically I only need two expressions maps given my discovery since my needs for additional articulations aren’t that great, but I went ahead and carbon copied the one for everything other than 1st Violins to: SSO Celli, SSO DB, SSO Viola, and SSO Violins 2 (where Natural is set to CC 32 and Value 1). Then, of course, SSO Violins 1 (where Natural is set to CC 32 and Value 20).
Again, as I stated before, the full project is too large to post here. The reason you see no VSTs is because I set the playback template to Silence so it would be small enough to post. I already stated this clearly before.
I’ve posted the full definitions in screenshots as I already shared in the other post I mentioned above. And Kontakt 8 is free and shouldn’t be a problem using in Dorico 6; I don’t understand why this has been such a sticking point with you.
I’ve solved my own problem, so no further assistance is needed.
Here’s the explanation Gemini gave for the reason for no expression maps:
When using the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra (SSO) in Dorico, the ‘All Articulations’ patch in UACC (Universal Articulation Control) mode allows you to use a single patch because it’s designed to listen for continuous controller (CC) messages sent automatically by Dorico, rather than requiring you to manually switch patches or use specific keyswitches.
Here’s how this integration works:
UACC Standardization: UACC is a standardized system, typically using MIDI CC 32 (or sometimes CC 31), that assigns specific CC values to different articulations (e.g., value 1 might be staccato, value 2 might be pizzicato, etc.).
SSO’s ‘All Articulations’ Patch: This patch is a “performance patch” that contains all the different samples for various articulations and is pre-configured by Spitfire Audio to respond to these specific UACC CC messages.
Dorico’s Automatic Messaging: When you add a musical articulation (like a staccato dot, slur, or dynamic marking) directly in Dorico’s score, the software automatically sends the corresponding UACC CC message (e.g., a specific value for staccato) for that note.
Dynamic Switching: The single SSO patch receives the UACC message and instantly switches the sound internally to the correct sample without any manual intervention required on your part.
Essentially, the ‘All Articulations’ patch acts as a central hub controlled dynamically by the UACC messages sent by Dorico, allowing the notation on the page to drive the playback sound seamlessly.
I rather suspect it was my suggestion that the natural of CC 20 was wrong and that you should be using patches from the" all techniques "such as 1 (which you chose),42,50 or 52 depending on the note length which led you to the solution. Why or earth it should be different for the 1st violins I haven’t a clue but you can work that one out for yourself. Anyway, I’m glad we’ve finally got to the end of this.
And of course your Gemini has forgotten about the Performance Patches. Without this annoying division into two patches, everything would almost certainly be much more straightforward. In general, you don’t need many Expression Maps but unfortunately the library does not have consistent articulations throughout --for instance an instrument like the clarinet has surprisingly few so if you use in your score ones which don’t exist in that library but are in the map – you can finish up with nothing playing for the relevant notes (because the UACC system does not seem to automatically default to “normal” if it can’t find a p.t). But I’ll leave you to find out these sort of things for yourself – you said your needs are rather simple and maybe you won’t run up against all the other issues needing to be solved for more advanced use of the library.
