Dorico and Catalina: MacOS 10.15

Thought I’d start the dreaded MacOS update-related conversation. Anyone out there using DP with the 10.15 (Catalina) Public Beta? Problems? Difficulties? Revelations?

Usual caveat about betas understood. :smiley:

Shiki Suen stated the following on Facebook, on Tuesday:

“A good news: My Cylinder Mac Pro running macOS 10.15 Dev Beta 2 can use Dorico 2.2.20 (USB-eLicenser) without any problem met till now.

(I still don’t dare to upgrade my MacBook Pro to macOS 10.15 Dev Beta due to FileVault concerns. Thus, I cannot tell whether soft-eLc runs fine on macOS 10.15 at this moment.)”

FYI, if your macOS drive has APFS formatting, it is quite easy to install a second version (e.g. the beta) separately on the same drive, you can read about it here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208891

I have it installed that way, however I don’t have FileVault enabled, and I use the USB eLicenser (otherwise I could’ve tested that for you).

I would not recommend using Dorico with beta versions of macOS (or indeed with “Insider” versions of Windows). With particular regard to macOS 10.15 Catalina, there are further new security features in the operating system this year that could conceivably cause problems with the inter-process communication that Dorico relies upon for licensing and the audio engine. Until the various teams within Steinberg have been able to test our products properly against the new operating system, I would suggest staying clear of the new operating system if the correct operation of your software is important to you. We will provide detailed compatibility information for macOS 10.15 Catalina when it is released, but not before.

My Cyllinder Mac Pro runs macOS 10.15 Dev Beta 2, and Dorico 2.2.20 runs fine with it.
I do not recommend upgrading to beta macOS if you have FileVault enabled in your system (which is the reason why my laptop still runs Mojave).

Pulling back my statements now. See my next reply.

Any news regarding Catalina? The official version is being released in October and now we’ve to take into account both Dorico 2 and 3. Any update?

Yes. See https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=167586&p=901978&hilit=catalina#p898300 and please search in future - it saves everyone’s time :wink:

Dorico 2 will not be updated for compatibility with macOS 10.15 Catalina. Dorico 3, on the other hand, will be, but we strongly recommend against updating until we can provide detailed compatibility information.

I have a feeling Apple may be over-reaching with Catalina. Personally I never update until at least 6 months after an OSX release and even then I do it in the secure knowledge that not everything is going to work.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/production-expert-1/2019/9/18/brands-are-already-issuing-warnings-about-not-upgrading-to-macos-catalina

Aside: I learned today that the iPhone 6 I bought from Apple less than 5 years ago doesn’t qualify for the latest IOS upgrade. Ridiculously quick obsolesence.

At the risk of starting a whole different conversation, the demands of the new OS are greater than ever before (their silicone gets so much more advanced with each cycle) and there’s nothing in the Android world that comes even close to lasting as long as Apple devices (at least as far as official support and updates are concerned). I’d also wager that that device will continue to get security patches for quite some time. Ultimately, if your hardware would be totally crippled by the resource demands of the new OS, they wouldn’t be doing any favors anyway. I have a 7 and I’m going to try and make it to next year (same 5 year mark as you). Time will tell.

Phones only tend to have an expected life of about 3 years, not only because of the general pace of change in telecoms but because of the high demands on physically small batteries.

The iPhone 6 and 6S are both about average for the length of Apple’s support period.

Whether you choose to pay £99 or £999 to replace your phone (and/or your handheld status symbol) at the end of each 3 year cycle is a different issue.

Getting back to the original topic, there is nothing new about the risk/reward tradeoffs over the requirement to run third-party software on different operating systems, compared with one’s opinions about the OS’s general look and feel. It doesn’t seem very rational to me that if someone is going to spend 90% or more of their time running third party apps on a computer, they choose what hardware to buy based on how they feel about the other 10% or less of what are going to do. But the fact that people aren’t rational isn’t a surprise either.

macOS Catalina final release enforces the App Notarization, hence my pullback of my statements before.
Dorico itself should run fine (theoreotically), but the App Notarization hassle does not only troubles Dorico itself but all VST plugins you want to use with it.
Good fortune with High Sierra (or Mojave with spctl disabled), comrades.

I use a version of ARIA Player that certainly hasn’t been notarized, and it runs fine on Catalina. There’s no need to disable the security system on Mojave, either.

Thanks so much, Leo, for your reply. As you can see, my question includes Dorico 2, something not entirely mentioned in the post you’re referring. Maybe the fact that I’m not starting a new topic, but continuing this old one should be a hint that I’ve done my part in searching. This is the second time I get a comment specifically from you telling me to search in the future; both occasions wrongfully assuming I’ve not searched. I really appreciate your comments a lot; very useful and have learned a lot from them, so thanks. Just, don’t assume so fast.
Anyways, thanks for the link; it was the first conversation I found and just needed more information. Thanks Daniel for clearing it.

If you add to the most recent thread on a topic, I’m very unlikely to ask you to search. If you add to a thread that’s a few weeks older than the most recent relevant search result - particularly if you’re asking ”any news” no-one knows what you’ve read and what you haven’t already read. That context is useful for both you and whoever else is posting.

Sorry for assuming.

There can be a reason that things you are using was built / certificated before a certain date.

Yea… you don’t understand how that works.

As to your f_eeling_, it’s less radical than the move to UNIX (OS X), the discontinuance of PPC support with 10.6, PPC app support with 10.7 and so on…

It was 2010 when Apple announced the end of 32 bit support by 2015. Well, they kicked the can on Yosemite but 5 years later, they are now making good on that 9 year old promise.

The 6S was released 4 years ago and supports iOS 13 as does the SE (same phone in a 5S case). The 6 was released 5 years ago and does not. California requires that Apple support hardware with security updates etc. for 3 years.

Apparently you missed the news that Apple replaces batteries for a nominal fee. No matter. No one is forcing anyone to upgrade … unless they want the functionality that comes with newer operating systems.