Dorico and the incredible German help

Attention, this is not a praise article!
I use the German version of Dorico pro 3. I also do not know how Steinberg imagines, the price is the same as in English. However, I clearly get less … help. There are no manuals, the forum is only in English. The video tutorials are, correct, in English (at least all for Dorico 3), under help -> guided tour in Dorico nothing happens - the link is dead.
You probably can continue this. In German keyboard commands are different, musical terms different. Imagine, just that would be expected of an English-speaking user.
And all the nonsense is made by Steinberg since 2016.
Maybe Dorico should only be expelled in Russian. Then almost all would have the same starting conditions. :slight_smile:

Does this help? https://steinberg.help/dorico_pro/v3/de/

Although it may not be updated for v3 in actuality - I can’t read German.

I’m surprised the Guided Tour doesn’t work since it looks as though it is built into the program.

While I understand your issues and don’t want to discard them, it could be worse.
I’m Belgian (from the Dutch-speaking part), and so English is only the third language we are taught in school (usually: 1. Dutch 2. French 3. English 4. German). I believe that many countries have English as a second language option in schools, I could be wrong about that though.
Music terms are also different in Dutch, just like in German.

20% to 25% of the world population can speak English (as native speaker or 2nd/3rd… language) so it is the language to pick to reach as wide as an audience as possible.
And your point about Russian is nonsense, because there’s more people in the world speaking Russian than there are speaking German. So by that logic, the only second livestream about v3 should not been in German.

And:

So for my mother (who is not proficient in English, like I like to believe I am), I had to create her own little cheat sheet / reference guide, because there’s not even a v1 or v2 manual to read through.

But yeah, it sucks that v3 isn’t documented in German (yet).

Other annoyances of being Belgian:
Our default keyboard layout is AZERTY, which also produces numerous issues with keycommands in programs like Dorico (I think we should use QWERTY, like our Dutch neighbours, but that’s another discussion).

OP, lemme tell you a situation.
It is the launch of Dorico 3 now, and the Japanese translated Dorico manual is still only available for Dorico 1.
I don’t know what happened with Dorico’s localization for non-English languages, but the officials may either have lack of people who can work for localization, or simply marketing issues.

I don’t think it is appropriate for me to comment on the possible marketing issues at this place, but I am wondering whether it is a good idea to make the help document able to be community-contributed.

This is was Daniel wrote last week: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=246&t=167404

“The Dorico 2.x documentation in German, French, Spanish and Italian is tantalisingly close to release (we’ve been working with additional translators to try to accelerate the timeline) but not quite. That will be published as soon as possible. The Dorico 3 documentation is not yet complete in English, but the localised versions will follow as soon as is practical after Lillie has made some more headway on the English documentation.”

Es wird auch mehr als Zeit, wenn man bedenkt dass es schon Version 3 ist.
Danke Jürg für die Info.

We are very sorry that it has taken so long to get the localised documentation in German, French, Italian, Spanish and Japanese ready for release. A number of factors have played a part, including us being without a documentation author for the English documentation for well over six months, the fact that we have a limited team of translators who work across all our product lines and a very full product release schedule, a much faster pace of development than is perhaps healthy, and so on. Earlier this year we engaged another company to help us complete the translation of the Dorico 2 documentation in German, French, Italian and Spanish, and those projects are nearing completion now. Dorico 3 is not yet completely documented in English, but as soon as it is, the localisation team will get to work on updating the Dorico 2 documentation to bring it up to par with the English for Dorico 3.

As for YouTube, Steinberg has a policy that our YouTube channels should be internationally-focused, and therefore only in English. We do not provide German-language YouTube tutorials for any of our products. We are hoping to introduce a German-language counterpart to John’s monthly “Discover Dorico” live-streams, but we haven’t yet managed to get this off the ground.

There was a German presentation of Dorico 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQqU3T4sLgE

AFAIK, the vast majority of the development team is London-based and it’s fair to think they might not command the German language to run a forum with support from the developers. That might be the reason of the absence of an official forum.
Meanwhile, there are some unofficial user groups that might be of help. I know of French and Portuguese user groups of Dorico on Facebook, it’s likely that there exists an user group in German too.

There’s a German Facebook group as well, where questions are usually answered within minutes.

This seems somewhat related to the Heisenberg Principle: the only way for the documentation to catch up is to change (stop?) the rapid development of the program. I don’t think that is what anyone wants.

English speakers who started with Dorico 1.0 have some empathy for those awaiting foreign language editions of the documentation. At the very beginning, even English documentation was limited; in some cases we helped each other by sharing lists of tokens and shortcuts much as Thijs has done for his mother.

Certainly all of us in the Dorico community (I make bold to say) hope those whose native language is not English see manuals in appropriate languages become available as soon as possible.

It might be worth the documentation team having a look at something like http://www.asd-ste100.org/, if they aren’t aware of it already.

That was originally developed for international safety critical scenarios (e.g. aviation and shipping) where it is essential that all parties can communicate efficiently and accurately in a shared language, both in writing and speech (e.g. radio communications).

The basic ideas is to restrict the English text to simple grammar and unambiguous vocabulary - for example “close” can only be used as a verb, not as an adjective (the permitted adjective is “near.”) There is no restriction on adding unlimited technical vocabulary for any particular application, but of course you hope that vocabulary is not confusing or ambiguous in itself.

There are software packages available to check writing against the standard.

It would probably help translators converting English to their native language as well, since the meaning of the English should be unambiguous for everyone who reads it, not just for those people who know the rules for writing it.

Thanks for the lively discussion.
But I must say that Steinberg is a German company. It should scratch their honor to offer German as it is. It is always here with relish on “finale” kicked. Only this company is in the US and still there are finals in German. And that since version 3! Point for “Finale”.
I no longer use Facebook, for reasons. Who wants to use it should never, never really demand anything more about privacy. My opinion. And Russian was more a joke. I learned Russian at school and later French.

Finale only exists in German because the German distributor, Klemm, took on the work to localise the software in exchange for a larger share of the revenue for every copy sold. Finale’s American corporate parent has no interest in localising the software beyond the support required to provide the distributors with the means to do the localisation for themselves. This is not excusing the delay in our own German documentation, which I have already both apologised for and explained the reasons behind.

Steinberg might be a German company, but they had the opportunity to take on a mostly-British recently-unemployed team who were more experienced in developing notation software than pretty much anyone else on the planet. Would you rather they hadn’t bothered, on account of the team not being German?

Shouldn’t Yamaha (Steinberg’s parent company) have insisted the team all learned Japanese first, not German? :wink:

Robert01, when you bought Dorico 3, there was the following statement in the shop:
Benutzeroberflächen-Sprachen: Englisch, Deutsch, Spanisch, Französisch, Japanisch, Italienisch, Chinesisch, Portugiesisch, Russisch
Dokumentations-Sprachen: Englisch
Therefore one can not demand a German Manual for Dorico 3 at the moment. At least Steinberg is very open and clear about what you get, when you buy the program.

As a German I don’t want to claim, that there has to be a German manual before the other localized versions, even if Steinberg is a German company (yes, owned buy a Japanese company …). There will always be a gap between English and the other languages in Dorico. At the moment, I feel that the gap between English and the other languages got to big, but, as Daniel stated, the team and Steinberg are aware of this and are working on it. Therefore I will be patient.
Nonetheless I think, that it is a problem for many non English users, who will buy the software and are disappointed, because they don’t find much help in their language. I’m sure, that it is only a minority of users, who watch tutorial videos on YouTube, join Facbook groups for a software or read this forum, to get their new program to know.

Being German myself, I appreciate the effort creating a localized user manual, which surely will be well received from younger students increasing the popularity of Dorico, too. Translation shouldn‘t be underestimated. Having done it on my own I foresee the duration to undertake such a task, could easily lead to one year of development time for such a big manual.

If the majority of users would accept excerpts, a quick reference sheet or basic chapter could be a start to build upon.
Don‘t take it for granted nowadays to have localization. I second it will bring trust, honor, customer satisfaction - all being (japanese) virtues, so I have good faith on it, this being worked on.

As a long time Sibelius user I am used to the fact that the German documentation is always behind the english one. In my bookshelf I find the printed manuals of version 5, the english one is dated April 2007, the german September 2007. Not always wanting to be behind the knowledge of the latest features, it got me to learn the musical expressions in english: what is a crotchet, a tuplet, a slur, a tie. And after some time i got used to the english expressions and got stuck to the english versions. I guess I’m not the only one that learned a little english by means of his music notation program. Reading and sometimes even daring to write in this forum here is also fun. And the moderator is still the same :wink: