Dorico First steps guide published (Update: Translations now available)

I’m working my way through the piano piece now, to see how this guide works. One wording catches my eye. Maybe it’s a difference of usage between US and UK? When I see a direction like the one on p. 22, “Continue inputting… up until the first beat of bar 14,” I would take that to mean “stopping just before the first beat” etc. But you mean it to be inclusive, yes? For that, I would expect something like “Continue inputting… through the first beat.” I know it’s difficult to find airtight wording that means the same thing to everybody.

One could say “through to the end of the first beat”, but “through the first beat” would not be clear to (most) British English speakers.
Trivia: In some parts of the U.K.“while” is used in a similar way to @Rinaldo’s use of “through” (e.g. “I work 9 while 5”). I remember being very puzzled by that, moving to Yorkshire in my teens.

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Just so I can learn, @pianoleo, what WOULD “through the first beat” mean to you, if you saw it in this kind of context? And does “until” mean “up to and including” for you?
(As a side note, the “9 to 5” example isn’t a true parallel for me, as the numbers have no duration – it’s a measurement from one instant in time to another, so any of these words would work. As a longtime Anglophile, I’m pleased to know about “while,” though.)

I was invited to work through this material; noticed one or two ambiguities and mistakes but no one contacted me (a true beginner to notation software) about how I got on. I did write a reply to you, Lillie, asking who I should contact. You said I’d be contacted.
Even so I was pleased to work through the material. I learned a fair few tricks to speed things up that I wouldn’t have discovered otherwise; mainly using Dorico to edit xml files.
I couldn’t get it to play the piano file (interaction between Dorico and my sound card) but did export an audio file that worked. I’ll raise that problem if I ever use Dorico to compose.

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I think you’re right that the current wording of that instruction is ambiguous. “Through to the first beat” works in British English, as does “through to the beginning of bar 14”, though both are as ambiguous as the current wording. “Through the first beat” is just as ambiguous and looks like there’s at least one missing word.

Wouldn’t ‘up to and including the first beat’ be the only non-ambiguous wording?

Thank you for the feedback @Rinaldo - I’ve made a note to review that sentence. Taken in context, the following clause mentions accidentals being required on beat 2. Nonetheless I’ll consider refining the first half of the sentence and relay any changes to our translators. (Similar to the development team, I like to mull over exact alternative wordings myself when fragments are suggested for review. Please don’t feel obliged to work out a different wording in this thread.)

@IvorStuart Yes if I remember correctly, you asked a day or so after receiving the material - at that stage we hadn’t sent out the feedback form as the intention was to give people a bit of time to tackle it and not to make anyone feel rushed, given it was voluntary. Most people got a link to the feedback form a week or so after getting the materials, but a number (including yourself, according to the records) only received it in the last few days - apologies for the delay. We were able to review all feedback received prior to our translation slot, and incorporate everything that needed doing. There were several points of consensus that resulted in some chunky changes.

If you (or anyone else reading in a similar position) still want to give feedback, we’ll still very gladly receive it. If you didn’t complete the initial beta materials and would prefer to switch to the latest published version, feel free to do that too - just make sure when you give feedback, it’s clear which one you’re referring to.

Having worked my way through the First Steps guide (in PDF), I have one more thought about some bits on page 91 that (to me) might possibly be made more accessible to the reader. That is, the required steps are clear, but I didn’t know why I was doing these exact things (and I was an early Dorico adopter, though I don’t always explore beyond what I already know):

  • “Press Shift-Alt/Opt-V”: What, in general, does this key combination do?
  • “the caret indicator shows a stemless slash voice”: What are the options I just moved through, and why is this the one I want? (Possibly the previous answer might explain this as well?)
  • “Press Y twice”: You explain Y later on, but it would be enlightening to know what it accomplishes here too.

Throughout the guide, you very clearly and helpfully explain why I, the user, should do certain things. It’s just in these few instances that I miss that bit.

Thank you for your feedback @Rinaldo, I’ve made a note for consideration. Much appreciated!

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Update: Translations of the First Steps guide are now available in the languages we translate into for Dorico: German (Deutsch), French (Français), Italian (Italiano), and Japanese (日本語).

Thank you again for your patience as we went through the translation process, and for the feedback. It’s all been noted for potential future revisions, even if it hasn’t all been implemented yet.

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Hi, I just got to the same spot in the guide (page 91) and I can confirm that nothing happens when hitting that shortcut.
I checked in the key commands window and the shortcut is indeed correct, but nothing happens when trying to use it.
Thanks for your help
Best
-m

Hi @mikeheels - can you say/show a bit more about how this looks at your end? Are you definitely already in note input with the caret showing when you press Shift-Alt/Opt-V to switch to a new stemless slash voice, as indicated in the text and accompanying screenshot? The key command won’t switch to a stemless slash voice unless the caret is already active.

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Hi @Lillie_Harris , exactly. I double click to enter edit mode, but once there, the shortcut doesn’t do anything

For me it works: you have to press Shift-Alt/Opt-V three times to get to the stemless slash voice, but you can get there using the key command as described. “until” there means keep pressing until you get to the stemless slash voice. I didn’t say “three times”, because it depends on whether you’ve already got active slash voices on the staff - in theory you shouldn’t, if following the steps exactly, but anything can happen especially when playing around/settling in.

If you have a project where this consistently doesn’t work, please share it with other relevant information regarding your OS, keyboard, language settings etc. The English guide assumes an English keyboard layout and English key commands.

It doesn’t work, sorry. Nothing happens by pressing. Shift - Alt/Opt - V

I’ve attached the project.

I was using the Italian keyboard layout as it’s the only keyboard I own and when I started there was no Italian guide available. But I use all my software in English and I wouldn’t want to change the language or follow a guide in Italian, as I already know that I will keep using English for everything I do.
I’m on MacOS 11.4.
Best
-m
first_steps_gertrude_ma_rainey_see_see_rider_start_point.dorico (498.2 KB)

I’m afraid this is beyond me, then - it works fine here, including when I switch my operating keyboard layout to Italian. For reference, here’s the relevant page in the Italian version of the guide. Dorico manuals assume that the operating language in Dorico matches the manual language, so if you’re running Dorico in Italian whilst reading the manual in English, you may need to be aware that keys may differ.

The only thing I can think is what keys exactly are you pressing - Alt/Opt means press Alt on Windows, or press Opt (Option) on Mac. So you should be pressing 3 separate keys: Shift, Alt or Opt, and V. Some Macbooks show Alt on the Option key - it’s the same one. But you shouldn’t be pressing 4 keys, just 3.

Thanks. I assume this is a bug and will try and report it as such.
Just to clarify: I’m using everything in English (my operating system and Dorico), it’s just the keyboard layout that is Italian, and should be because that’s the physical keyboard I have.
Of course I’m pressing the correct keys.
Best
-m

Hi, I think I solved the issue, but I can confirm that it must be a bug or something that goes beyond a normal keyboard shortcut scenario.
The command “Create Slash Voice” is indeed correctly assigned to Shift - Alt/Opt - V but that doesn’t work. I erased that and assigned the same function to a different combination, in my case I used Ctrl-Shift-Command-Option -v
Now that function works.
I assume there might be some conflict with the original key command and something else (maybe at the “OS” level?)
If any of the developers is reading this, they might be able to look into that.

All the best
-m