Dorico installation on macOS is very clunky and atypical for macOS

Dorico
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The whole process could indeed be improved. Having some kind of installer (download assistant or whatever they call it) is standard in music production software world. This is what I have:

music_software_utils
music_software_utils1500×974 133 KB

However, Steinberg has separate apps for installation, activation and library management, while most of the others have a single app that manages all those things. I think Steinberg should also have a single application with separate tabs for Applications, VST instruments and libraries. For each item, that single application should have “install/remove” and “activate/deactivate” buttons. And probably “try/buy”.

At the moment, Download Assistant only tells us which required and optional apps, VSTs and libraries come included with selected Steinberg product and allows us to download and install all of those with one click. But it doesn’t track what is installed. If I understand, it just tells us that once upon the time we downloaded something. But if we later uninstall that something, Download Assistant still shows it as downloaded.

And my biggest personal issue is this ugly ancient eLicenser Control Center. I will have to open another topic to get some help removing it. This thing can’t be killed. Download Assistant always brings it back to life.

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While the website is not clear about what a new user should be doing, once one manages to configure the Steinberg Download Assistant—not complicated, almost everything automatic, just a matter of patience—the installation of new versions of any Steinberg software will be a very smooth and painless experience.

@MRoth1910 : if you need any help as a new user, feel free to reach out to me or to many of the other nice folks here. We are all here to make this a most inclusive and open place.

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The installation isn’t the best welcome, I’ll grant you; but there are a number of things to consider:

Firstly, it’s cross-platform software, so not everything is, or can be, Mac-ified as much as it could be.

Secondly: there’s the licensing software, which has to be in place first.

Also, the software is designed to work across the range of Steinberg’s software, so if you buy other instrument libraries, or VSTs, or Cubase: it’s very easy to just add that on.

That only works for ‘straightforward’ apps that don’t need to install stuff in other locations, e.g. /Library. There’s plenty of Mac apps that need Installer .pkg files, at the least.

Downloader apps, Library managers and other such things are by no means unique: MS Office has an Autoupdater app which looks after the updates to Office (and regularly updates itself); Kontakt installs a whole bunch of apps. Vienna Instruments installs a “Vienna Assistant”, and that’s on top of iLok.

I’ll agree that the process could do with being made easier for the user to understand; but by and large you install the SDA, enter your code, click “Install All”, and then let it get on. That’s not everyone’s experience, admittedly.

Anyway, I hope you got it all down, and can now get on with the good stuff!

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This recommendation always bemuses me. Shouldn’t there be one and only one way to install Dorico? Get rid of the other ones (whatever they are).

Yes, I also had a initial bad impression from my original Dorico installation, back in the bad old days. But I think that it is somewhat out of the control of the Dorico team, and their cross to bear.

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There IS only one way. The only thing download assistant does is installing all the utilities, applications and libraries from that link.

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I am glad to hear that, @ikos. But then I don’t understand why dlb said: “Go here for a more reliable installation experience.” More reliable than what?

I was assuming that he meant some other link to get to better access and instructions. If there are other less satisfactory different links and paths to installation, I think that they should be removed.

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It is a difficult experience. Even when it goes well it is very long winded with multiple interacting components.

I think Steinberg are aware of this.

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I don’t know as I’ve personally never had any problems with the download assistant. I just think that the whole UX can and should be improved.

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I agree @ikos

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By more reliable, I meant trouble free. I have tried using SDA several times over the years and invariably it doesn’t work to the point I need to uninstall everything and start over, only to be met by more problems if I continue to use the SDA.

Whenever I do it manually as per the link I referenced, it always works correctly the first time. I suppose it is possible that the SDA has gotten better over the years, but as evidenced by all the problems the new comers are having, I doubt it.

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Others in the thread have given a good explanation for why Dorico isn’t installed purely by simply dragging and dropping an application package into the Applications folder. Dorico itself is a totally standard macOS application and is self-contained within the application package, but it relies on a number of other external components to operate fully.

Steinberg’s many applications share components, and many Steinberg customers use several of our products. It’s wasteful – not only in terms of your own computer’s disk space, but also in terms of the amount of data downloaded by every customer – not to try to ensure that these components are shared where possible.

Dorico relies on Steinberg Activation Manager for licensing, it relies on the HALion Sonic VST plug-in for playback, and in turn on sound content that is loaded into HALion Sonic. It doesn’t make sense to jam all of this into the Dorico application package when those components can be shared with other applications (indeed, HALion Sonic is a standard plug-in that can be used in any other compatible host, not only Steinberg products).

Likewise, it’s also important that these components can be updated independently of each other. If we need to update Steinberg Activation Manager, it doesn’t make sense to require you to download 500MB for a whole new Dorico package when only 20MB needs to be updated.

All that said, we know that the fact that you have to contend with Steinberg Download Assistant, Steinberg Activation Manager, and Steinberg Library Manager, not to mention eLicenser Control Center (which will at least finally be put out to pasture early next year), adds complexity and confusion to the process of getting our software installed and activated.

@MRoth1910, you are by no means the first person to express dissatisfaction at this state of affairs, and you can rest assured that we are well aware of where the process of “onboarding” (I don’t like that term, but it’s an industry standard one these days) falls short.

I hope you will find that having got Dorico and its related shared components installed, you’ll enjoy using the software.

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I’m not worried, just observing — and I was told that the team does read, does try to respond and act insofar as it is possible.

I’ll do my best to give it an honest try for sure even as my main work will have to remain with my current workflow and other software for now.

@dlb right. It’s a mess and all things being equal could a lot simpler.

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@benwiggy a .pkg experience is still pretty seamless for a user no matter how long they’ve been on macOS.
@dspreadbury I understand that. Your competitor (maybe competitors?) are like that too, but somewhat more efficient at it (and I am discovering that HALion Sonic is loaded even when I don’t necessarily want to do so, and I realized from this thread that I’m not the only one who uses or is at least willing to try multiple products).

and I use LaTeX regularly so I understand that sometimes you need to stash things deep in /Library.

I think my main gripe can be boiled down to “the installation isn’t even close to macOS normal even if you have good reasons for not only using /Applications” and I would say that even by Windows standards it would be infuriating. Bouncing between multiple things for unclear reasons is a hassle. But if the number of apps could be reduced, that’d be swell. And sure, if people run multiple products, that adds some complexity, but I don’t know…it’s all a trade-off.

Maybe I’m missing something, and this relates to my LaTeX comment too: if I need things for playback to work, like the Indian drum sounds (which I don’t think that I actually need for my own use, but I get it if the software needs it), why make that an optional installation? I was going to take advantage of that possibility, until error messages came up. OK, so I download all of this stuff. Just do it for me!! I don’t want to think about this! :slight_smile:

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yes. That simplification is also more pleasant!

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MRoth1910,

comparing LaTeX to an application needing lots of Gigabytes of sheer data implies that you don’t understand the complexity.

This looks as if you are contradicting yourself. Tailored installations for the needs of the individual user (complex) or just everything in one big dump, even the things an individual user like you does not especially need?
If you have read Daniel Spreadbury’s contribution above, the explanation can’t be any clearer or any more polite:

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Err TeXLive is quite complex. It’s in the neighborhood of 4.5 GB, and MacTeX is usually larger; TexLive, when it does not work, is complex enough that if something supposedly in a directly for which you have to search in /Library, then you have to reinstall it.

But anyway, you’re denigrating me and my point — which is to say that I am not ignorant of things that are stashed away and where simply dragging and dropping isn’t sufficient.

This looks as if you are contradicting yourself. Tailored installations for the needs of the individual user (complex) or just everything in one big dump, even the things an individual user like you does not especially need?

I’m not contradicting myself. If the optional installation isn’t optional, because Dorico (or whatever app) is going to work suboptimally and throws up an error message, then how is a new user supposed to know that in fact I should go ahead and download the other thing even if it’s not needed by me, the user? (It’s not that big anyway, so it’s harmless from that perspective.)

I never claimed that Daniel was impolite or unclear, quite the contrary. I just wanted to bring this up…I just think that it’s reasonable to want this to be simpler and more Mac-like when it comes to the installation, where it is very far from the norms, even for complex things. And I’m not the only one who thinks this.

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TexLive is not comparable to Dorico at all. TexLive is a set of open-source unix tools, fonts and a few GUI apps that use those tools. Someone packed all that together inside a huge pkg installer and named the distribution MacTeX. They don’t sell you anything, they don’t care if you have any additional apps or tools that depend on anything inside MacTeX etc.

Dorico, on the other hand, is a part of a large commercial ecosystem whose parts interact in non-linear ways. Everything that comes with Dorico is also licensed through Dorico. But all those additional components can be shared with other Steinberg and non-Steinberg applications. In addition to sharing, those components could also be licensed through other Steinberg applications or purchased and licensed separately or as a part of some bundle. So some kind of package and licence manager is absolutely necessary. We can only argue how that package and license manager can be realised in practice. And let’s not forget that all that must work on Windows and the experience should ideally be almost identical on both platforms.

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MRoth1910, as English is not my first language I had to look up the word. If you feel denigrated by me, that was definitely not my intention. I am sorry!
And I am interested, whether you managed to get your Dorico installation up and running, despite all the quirks you experienced. Luckily this is a one off per user, and normally, after the initial tribulation, things should run smoothly and you should be able to start enjoying your new software.