Dorico installation on macOS is very clunky and atypical for macOS

Dorico
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1

Hello, I’m a new prospective user of Dorico as its meterless support may be useful for me. I realize that there is a bit of a steep learning curve coming from other software (in my case Musescore Studio 4, which I may or may not ultimately abandon. TBD), and I’m just using Dorico SE 5 for now. However, I would like to offer some feedback on the installation for macOS.

I am on a 2018 Macbook Pro which will be the last version to receive updates (totally up to date with Sonoma and will be on Sequoia probably as soon as it launches, out of preference).

I will try my best to describe the experience beyond that it is Windows-like, and please forgive me if I have some elisions or misunderstandings, because I think that my main point holds true.

A macOS installation ideally has the app itself in a .dmg file mounted as a volume in Finder. In the easiest case, where the developer has an Apple developer account, you open the .dmg file, you drag the app to the Applications folder, you may have to enter your admin password or use TouchID, and very rarely interact with a checklist menu; I believe that happens with a .pkg file. Once that is done, you can open the app from Finder or Launchpad or via Spotlight. Boom, done. The OS verifies the app, and you’re rocking and rolling. If the developers don’t have a developer account, it’s a little bit trickier as the user needs to give permission and has to go into Applications manually. (There are other ways to get apps including the App Store, Home Brew and using Terminal, but I’m talking about what is a typical download.)

In contrast, with Steinberg apps and Dorico, it was a mess. The first file is a .dmg, for Steinberg Download Assistant. Then, after some updates happen, you select the program to install, the one which you thought that you were directly downloading from the web. After that, it creates /Downloads/Steinberg/OSX where we find Dorico 5.1.51 Application Installer. There were a couple of rounds bopping between apps and the web; it was late, so please excuse not recalling the exact order of operations.

Finally, it asked me to install HALion Sonic. TBH, I need to do more research on what it is, and that’s on me, but I now have six apps: Dorico 5, Steinberg Download Assistant, Steinberg Library Manager, Steinberg Application Manager, eLicenser Control Manager, and HALion Sonic. Also, whatever MediaBay is seems to be needed as I got an error message (I think from SDA?) that it wasn’t installed properly. So I installed it, but it has an uninstaller utility, which is truly Windows-like; in all but the weirdest cases, dragging and dropping to the trash suffices to uninstall an app on macOS.

Musescore Studio and Muse Hub don’t exactly do things the macOS way either for various reasons, but they only have 2 apps, and they install in the typical way that I described.

Hopefully this is helpful feedback. I was so intent on installing that I didn’t grab screenshots. I put this under Dorico as I have no experience installing other Steinberg products, so others will have to chime in about their experiences there.

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I am sure, the experts will chime in with a better explanation.
There is a very simple reason.
Dorico, the notation application itself could be easily installed as we Mac users are accustomed to.
But Dorico is not just a notation application, it comes with a DAW with all it’s bells and whistles to enable the user to playback in a rather realistic way, what he had just put down “to paper”. That reason makes it necessary to install an audio engine plus huge libraries with sound samples. The sheer amount of data covered by these files does make it impossible to be just installed by drag and drop. This would result in too many mistakes and probably faulty installations. That is, where the Installation Manager comes into play. It makes sure that big amounts of data get downloaded properly, even with flaky internet connections. Also it will take care of putting all the huge files to their right places.
Then of course a software of this expertise and price has to be secured from misuse. A registration and license has to be applied to the person who has paid for it. There are a couple of security mechanisms which at the same time makes sure, once the license holder has registered the software, he or she does not have to do this at every launch of the software. It is all well thought through, and yes, it is not as streamlined as one is used from a single one purpose app.

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Apps that behave like that do not have to install elements in addition to the application package to other parts of the system (e.g., the Library).

4

But why is it like this?

Also Musescore Studio and Muse Hub do!

5

Ridiculous.

And I don’t absolutely love Musescore and Muse Hub, but they got it together.

Maybe Dorico is better but it’s extremely off-putting that people are automatically defensive. I’ve gotten feedback elsewhere from other users that the forum users and devs are responsive, not entirely defensive, and willing to consider that this is clunky.

Even MacTeX is easier to install than this, and that is a distribution which really depends on things being in the right place. That Dorico needs an installation manager does not pass the sniff test.

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I have no insider knowledge of macOS programming to know, but basically software that install multiple elements come into “packages” that run sub-programs tasked to place each element into their respective place. These packages come in .pkg or .dmg format, usually.
There are other installer kinds, but I don’t know any details about them.

I’ve been using macOS since 2009, and software installers have been like this at least since then, possibly much, much longer!
Coming from Windows, I have never found them annoying, so I am curious about what makes your experience a pain.

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It’s worth the effort–and not everyone has this much difficulty. Not sure why. Sorry it affects you.

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I think you can run MuseScore without a license.
For Dorico in earlier years we needed a Dongle and/or software licenser. This system has been overthrown to a more user friendly method. We can install and run Dorico on up to three computers with one license. The app does not “phone home” so you don’t need internet to make sure your license is being recognised. To make this all work reliably and without trouble, it needs some preparation at the beginning, when installing the app. For most (I would guess 95%) the installation process runs well and without hiccups or trouble. Of course, if you belong to the 5% you might need help or assistance. Sometimes it is a special setup of a computer or a specific browser version, which might be the cause… but be assured, none of the people having problems have not been helped with success at the very end :+1:t2:

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I have heard from a number of folks that it’s easier than it used to be but not seamless, that this is a first point of friction for many users (especially for macOS users)…

So yeah.

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That’s true. It’s just that this is not really ideal way to install software on macOS even with a license. License requirements do not justify a bad user experience like this.

But again, it’s not that I had trouble (and I got it to run, although I don’t know how note entry playback works so maybe I missed something which I firmly believe a better installation would help avoid!

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I know. I grew up on Windows 95, XP, 7… point being, the .pkg installation clicking is OK if aytypical for macOS, with the .dmg file and dragging and dropping being preferred. Bouncing between multiple apps and the web and then having to deal with an installation manager instead of dragging and dropping is rather infuriating.

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Go here for a more reliable installation experience:

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Think of the installation manager as somebody helping you at your side. We can be thankful to get that kind of assistance.
I might be wrong, but my impression is that recently in newer macOS systems installations try to move away from easy drag and drop because of security issues…

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As I said I’m on the latest version available to the public. That is certainly not the case.

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I’m on the free SE version and did not find any such option. Making that a pro feature is suboptimal at best — and I have feedback elsewhere that it affects all of the Steinberg product line which isn’t good news for me.

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Yes I have heard that for beginners the free SE version installation process is too complicated.

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I had a pretty seamless installation on Windows (yes, I fell into the multiple Steinberg accounts trap, but that was trivial to resolve)

That aside, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the Dorico team has little or no influence over the Steinberg product management and licensing system. Your grievances would be better aired on the general Steinberg forum than here on the Dorico forum.

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This should not be a pro feature. It should be the default universally — especially if you want to loop people in once they have more stable income. Students in particular are not going to have a good time downloading this and installing, drawing on my own experiences of university campus life.

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You seem to be ignoring that I’m a new user… what you couldn’t know is that experienced users directed me here not there.

Also I don’t believe that users can post to the general forum.

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Folks… It is not uncommon to have trouble with the installation. Let’s not drive away new users.

@MRoth1910 I hope you will pardon a bit of defensiveness among some of the users here, myself included. There’s been quite an influx of new users here over the past couple weeks, some of them just coming to complain. Everybody is a bit weary, and most of us should probably take a break from the heavy forum usage we’re typically accustomed to.

As someone said above, it is certainly worth persevering through it. Once you are up and running, the installation process will hopefully be a distant memory.

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