Dorico playback problem with string instruments


I use Dorico Pro 3.0.10 and macOS 10.12.6

When I create a new Dorico project, and I add a string instrument player, for example violin or double bass, each note I add plays back with an added low F#.
When I click on a note, the notated single note is sounded. But when I hit play or p, it’s played back with the added low F#.
Very strange. This occurs since I’ve switched to Dorico 3.
Changing instruments in the Halion Sonic SE3 interface does not help. (If I audition the instrument in the Halion interface, the problem does not occur).
Restarting Dorico does not help either.
The problem seems to affect only string instruments. Woodwinds, brass, fretted instruments all seem to play back fine.
However, when I change the Violin player’s sound to, for example, a clarinet in the Halion interface, then the notes play back with an added low F# clarinet sound.

Any ideas?

From your description it sounds like you’ve somehow managed to end up with the wrong expression map in the endpoint setup… Have you selected the HSSE+HSO (Pro) playback template?

yes, HSSE+HSO (Pro) playback template is selected

If you start a new project and add a single violin, does the endpoint setup (click the cogwheel under VST instruments on the right) say HSO Violin Solo in the Expression map column?

yes, the endpoint setup is HSO Violin Solo in the Expression map column.

And the patch that’s loaded in HALion Sonic SE is the HSO Violin Solo patch?

yes, loaded sound is the HSO Violin Solo patch

Can you try clicking ‘Reset to Factory’ for the HSO Violin Solo expression map in Play > Expression Maps? Maybe the settings for the expression map have gone wrong somehow.

I saw an option ‘Reset to Library Defaults’ in Play > Expression Maps > HSO Violin Solo. I’ve clicked it but no change…

How does the attached project sound for you? (1.84 MB)

It sounds good! No weird f sharps.
If I choose ‘Violin Solo Combi’ in my own test project, it also plays back well. However, if I choose ‘Solo Violin’ or the GM violin, the strange f# still sounds.
Though I’d still like to find out why some sounds still give those strange results, this is already a big improvement. Thank you for looking into it.

The GM violin needs a different Expression Map. Since General MIDI it doesn’t respond to any playback techniques except note velocity for dynamics, use the Default map.

The Solo Violin doesn’t seem to have any key switches either, so the Default map also works with that.

I can reliably reproduce the bug by following the these steps:

  • Create a new document from template with Strings Trio.

  • Write some notes for the Violin.

  • Go to Halion from Play mode and change violin program with “YAMAHA S90ES Piano”.

  • Now when you play you can hear the low F#

  • Further more, if you export the file as MIDI and then reimport it in a new file, you can see that the note really exists, although previously it was not visible.

Welcome to the forum, calinburloiu. This isn’t a bug: when you change the playback sound used by an instrument, you also need to change the expression map used for that channel in the Endpoint Setup dialog. Dorico doesn’t know that you’ve changed the sound, so it doesn’t know that the expression map that was originally chosen no longer applies.

Thanks for clarifying, Daniel! It would be nice if you could improve the user experience for this typical. It’s difficult for a user to understand what is happening in this situation.

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On the contrary, it seems clear that, when one changes (customizes) the sound, one needs to find the appropriate expression map. A flute (capable of crescendos on a single note) does not handle dynamics the way a piano or wood block does.

For those who want a more “automatic” process, Dorico provides playback templates which reset the instrument sounds and match them with the appropriate Expression Maps.

For what it’s worth I do agree that it is hard for the user to understand what’s happening here, and we’d certainly like to figure out a way to make this more obvious. The ideal solution would be for Dorico to be notified when you change something in HALion, so that we could make the adjustment to the expression maps automatically, but even that would only work for HALion and not for other, third party virtual instruments, so it would still be a problem in those situations.

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I am also getting these low F#s added to every note. I’ve read through this thread and am still very confused. The problem started when I tried to temporarily change the playback of a cello part to a violin sound (the cello part goes very high, and out of the range of the default cello sound). I managed to get the violin sound, but now the remaining cello sounds have the added low F#. I don’t know what I did wrong! I read that I also need to change the expression map or endpoint setup, but I don’t know what to change it to. How do I get them back to how they used to sound?

(It would be great for future versions to have some kind of “simple mode” for idiots like me who don’t use Playback apart from note auditioning and occasional very basic reference audio mockups.)

Did you just replace the cello with a violin patch in Halion? If so, go to the player in Dorico Setup and do change instrument, then go to play/playback template and reapply HSSE… pro

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Thank you! It worked!