Hello Dorico crew and colleagues,
I’m having the following issue:
Originally the piece on the screenshot below is in 3/4 but I would like to extend the selected/enclosed in red/ bar 21 (which actually should be 22, but I don’t know why it is duplicated - this is the second issue) by one time making it in 4/4.
Here is the screenshot:
Here are my steps:
In order to prevent any note position changes in bar 22 firs I used to insert time signature of 3/4 into it. (This is logical)
Then I inserted TS of 4/4 in the previous Bar 21.
The problem here is, actually the bar is still in 3/4, doesn’t matter that there is signature of 4/4.
When I made it into 4/4 Dorico didn’t add quarter pause at the end of the bar 21.
Specifically, select the 3/4 time signature (the second time signature in your screenshot) and type Shift-B 1q Enter.
As to the bar number, at some point you may have copied and pasted a time signature that had a Bar Number Change attached. If you don’t remember ever having created a Bar Number Change, is there a possibility that this file originated as imported MusicXML? If so, it may be that the software you exported from works with time signatures in a slightly different way to Dorico. Either way, select the 3/4 time signature, right-click and go Bar Numbers > Bar Number Change. Then set to Continue Primary.
Dan hello,
Thank you for the help!
Well, about the beats is matter of taste. I would prefer Dorico to automatically add beats in such case (at the end of bar, if it’s populated with notation). Such feature could be added to the Preferences for those of us who would like to turn it On, or Off.
Imagine when you are working with many apps… It’s not possible to remember the whole key commands for all of them…
I prefer to remember much more important things like Music Theory and instrumentation…
Dorico will rebar according to the time signature automatically, but only as far as the next time signature. There are occasions where you might want to bring the following music forward, and other occasions where you might actually want to add a beat somewhere. Dorico does its best to be non-destructive, and to be predictable.
Leo hello,
The problem with the bar number appeared after I copied and cut the notes from bar 21 to 22, because I forgot to record the part which is now in bar 21.
Actually, there is a weird oddity that I’ve not spotted before: If you increase the numerator of a time signature, and that bar is immediately followed by another time signature, an explicit bar number change is added. This looks like a bug to me.
Leo, I also think this is a bug. Yes, the bar numbering could be corrected, so it is not a major issue, but surely should be fixed.
Anyway… the overall development of Dorico goes well.
We’ll see what the next update will bring to us.
Following on from the previous comments about time signatures - by default, Dorico indeed doesn’t automatically change the number of beats when you change a time signature. Time signatures last until the next existing time signature or the end of the flow, whichever comes first. This means that you can end up with an incomplete bar at the end of that range unless you have Insert mode activated. (As Leo alluded to, there are cases where people wouldn’t want extra beats added despite changing the time signature, so Insert mode gives you that choice.)
If you activate Insert mode (in Write mode, press I or click the button in the Notes toolbox on the left) before changing/inputting time signatures, Dorico then adds any necessary extra beats to make sure the last bar is full according to the time signature.
I totally agree. Dorico is frustrating. I’ve changed the time signature and it doesn’t add beats. This behaviour makes no sense to me. I was trying to change/consolidate 4/4 and 2/4 into 6/4. I use Dorico a couple of times a month and shortcuts and popovers are not user friendly when I am using so many other apps. I also use Staffpad for developing compositions, and that is so intuitive.
Hi Lillie, I am guessing that I am not the only person confused by this. As an occasional user of Dorico I seem to spend more time looking up tutorials, searching for key commands and general problem solving, more than I do actually writing. This is a perfect example and I would be most grateful if you can please feed this back to the development team to give this as an option. When I change a time signature from 4/4 to 6/4 for example, I expect it to change without having to do anything else or have my music move. I deliberately put in a time signature change after the affected bar so nothing else in my composition would change but then was completely baffled when beats weren’t added, despite changing the time signature. In Staffpad this behaviour is automatic. It doesn’t move music, but it will highlight affected bars in grey or red if their needs to be more or less notes or attention given to any bar. This is so intuitive when writing. King regards Richard
See my comment above.
(Had you not put the following time signature in, Dorico would quite happily rearrange all subsequent music into the new time signature - which is often required as well)
I can support having Dorico somehow highlight measures that end up not matching their time signatures with the number of beats in the bar, but ultimately Dorico should not have to reprogram their software so that folks do not have to learn the program.
I can empathize up to a point with those who use the software sporadically, but the Dorico Team has spent considerable effort to document and support the product, albeit they are not mind readers.
No you’re not, and in fact a few years ago I myself ended up in a rehearsal of a piece of mine where we discovered some time signature/beat discrepancies thanks to me forgetting about Insert mode and later time signatures. So I definitely understand!
Daniel has said before (and I also support) that we might add some sort of visual feedback to make it easier to spot bars that don’t fulfil the time signature “brief”.
The default behaviour (Dorico never inserts beats within existing music unless you explicitly say that’s what you want via Insert mode) is beneficial in most other cases: it’s the same behaviour that means changing a stream of notes from 2/4 to 3/4 keeps the stream intact, and simply moves barlines around the notes. Having to remove rests/beats or shift notes around for every affected bar would be very tedious (and indeed is tedious in other programs). To have Dorico behave differently for the last bar in a section would introduce an inconsistency, vs the existing ability to use Insert mode to make that choice yourself.
But don’t worry, all that aside, I have heard and understood your feedback.
Hi @Lillie_Harris,
Something interesting came to my mind, about this topic as possible workflow improvement…
The Insert mode way of adding time signatures that affect the beats per bar could be preserved, but something else could be added in case you are just changing the time signature, without using the Insert mode - A dialog box to appear asking you to change the beat number according to the TS, or just replacing the it without affecting the beats.
I think solution like that will be fine for everyone, оr at least for the most of us.
I would prefer Dorico to automatically add beats in such case (at the end of bar, if it’s populated with notation). Such feature could be added to the Preferences for those of us who would like to turn it On, or Off.