Have embarked on an orchestral project - and I put the first 20 measures on both Dorico and Finale, just for purposes of comparison. Same notes, same orchestration, same dynamics. Listening to the results, I have to say that Dorico (using Halion) ‘won’ this competition hands down - despite my general satisfaction in over 30 years with Finale. Quite thrilled, satisfied, and motivated. Absolutely worth the (admittedly substantial) agonies of learning a new program and discarding old habits.
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I assume that Finale wasn’t using Halion? A comparison between bundled libraries, irrespective of vendor, I must admit I’ve always found pretty uninspiring. But I’m glad it’s encouraged you to want to master Dorico as that’s the main thing!
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Having come also from Finale the difference between HALion and Garritan Personal Orchestra (GPO) / Jazz and Big Band (JABB) was not that significant, I preferred even the JABB saxes over HALion’s, but the purchase of NotePerformer has been a real quantum jump.
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It’s certainly easier to use better third-party libraries with Dorico than with Finale – but in my experience, I’ve found that even Garritan sounds better on Dorico! (With the right expression maps and playback options.)
But for me, the biggest advantage is all the work that Dorico does for you on the page.
Glad you’re enjoying the move.
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I was using GPO5 with Finale. It wasn’t so much the instrumental timbres but the way they combined that leads me to prefer the Dorico result. Haven’t yet tried using GPO with Dorico.
That’s what I was assuming. To me this is really a comparison between GPO and Halion and both are very old and pretty long in the tooth but your findings are interesting nonetheless.
I think the main point is one Ben has just made that it’s easier to use third party libraries with Dorico because of the control options such as the key editor and Expression Maps so for that reason alone one might expect better playback given the same library. Obviously you can expect to get better results with the leading third party vendors than free bundled libraries but equally, not everyone requires that if the main aim is just basic proofing.
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I realize I’m using the wrong terms - the sounds are Iconica Sketch and Halion is the playback engine. And in my Finale days I was using other sounds as well as GPO5 - the CFX piano, a beautiful marimba from Native Access (I think) , and sometimes the BBC solo strings. - And I do appreciate increasingly, benwiggy, the work that Dorico does on the page, even the way it makes me think - and the harp pedal calculations are the neatest thing since sliced bread. - And I will try Garritan with Dorico, and will probably give Noteperformer a try as well. Thanks to all for your comments!
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Ah, OK – Iconica Sketch is a relatively recent addition to Dorico and I think most folk find it an improvement on the Halion library but of course we all have different tastes and requirements.
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“Dorico vs. Finale”?
Easy…
Dorico in full development and support mode.
Finale dead in the water.
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HALion Sonic itself is an absolutely fantastic sonic engine with solid user GUI abilities, and automation features that now leave Kontakt in the dust in terms of a user implementing automation possibilities (more of interest in a Tracking DAW, or in live playing). It hasn’t really caught on with third party library developers like Kontakt. Kontakt was way ahead for years at having tools a pro library developer would want/need for packaging/marketing/Custom GUI/DRM/etc. until HALion 6 finally hit the market. HALion has sounded fantastic since version 1, became an absolute power house for personally developed sounds by version 5, and since version 6 an outstanding, powerful, and feature rich developer engine (custom GUIs, packing libraries for sharing/market, etc) exists in the full version HALion (plus more Libraries come with it).
In my humble opinion, someone totally new with HALion can learn to make high quality sounding, pro looking instruments/libraries in a fraction of the time that it’d take to make something similar (and that sounds the same) in Kontakt. Being late to the game in that respect meant not as many 3rd party developers are out there doing HALion content. Being late to the game also means the tools are a bit more modern, easier to use, and all in the same environment.
The older HALion Symphonic Orchestra (HSO) library, and even the Sonic Selection stuff (all comes with Dorico Pro) can sound quite good but it takes a little work on the user’s part.
Out of the box, HSO is super dry, loud/flat, and not even close out of the box to being positioned in a pleasing/realistic sonic space/context. Mixer templates that come with Dorico Pro help a little, but it still requires a user going in manually, gain-staging everything quite a bit softer, and refining the mix a bit. HSO samples are high quality, but were made with close mics in a low/zero ambiance environment, with intent to be able to use artificial rooms and such and place the orchestra in a wide variety of sonic settings. The samples for some things, notably the solo strings, are very rich with strident harmonics that would be absorbed or diffracted quite a bit in a room with natural reverb and distance from the mic, so a bit of EQ and processing helps tune up the character desired. In essence, it’s easy to shave away or lower harmonics and such we don’t want in a mix, but adding/boosting missing/low characteristic harmonics of an instrument is difficult if not impossible. So, the samples bare it all, and loudly so. Use EQ/Compression/Reverb/Chorus/etc, to shape it to needs. Some instruments could use a little more ‘range’ (fixable with full HALion), and some stuff, like Solo Strings, doesn’t have any ‘vibrato free’ variation anywhere in the box.
The Sonic Selection library that also comes with Dorico (all versions/sizes) can sound as good a Yamaha MOTIF and that’s pretty darn good. The sounds are simple, and meant to be ‘easy to play, tweak, layer, route and mix’ in live stage settings. Dorico simply loads default programs without setting/mixing anything for an orchestral reference (again, included Mixer templates help, but manual user polish can make a huge difference for the better). Again, the tools are there for the user to go in and shape up a nice and realistic mix.
Iconica Sketch is a wet library where you get real world room ambiance and stage/room positioning built into the stereo samples, and the default programs loaded by Dorico are more or less ready to go and give a tolerable mix from the first time one taps play. The main weakness of Sketch is a few of the instruments run out of ‘range’ way too soon, we’re talking Jr. High range, not Pro Horn player range (I.E. F. Horn), and you’re stuck with the room it gives you.
I believe the full version of Iconica includes dryer close mic samples, as well as from a variety of other mic positions in whatever room the library was sampled in. In my opinion, Iconica in general is quite nice for lush cinematic sounds. For more nimble virtuoso level pieces, it feels sluggish and harder to use. It’s possible to give a tighter sound, but to my ears, such compositions require extra work and experience with the library. If in the market for a library in the price range, I definitely recommend doing demos and ‘shopping around’ first before buying in. It might be exactly what you want, but then again, there are a lot of fine libraries out there in that price range that have different sets of strengths and weaknesses.
The absolute no-brainer investment in the Dorico/Sibelius world for orchestral scoring is Note Performer. It’s reasonably priced, and those on tight budgets can even split payments up over time without any kind of third party credit/financing or interest charges. Its not the best sounding thing in the world, but it’s very small and efficient, and solid as a reference library for composers. It’s pretty easy on the ears as you sit there composing, and good at conveying ideas and concepts to your stakeholders. One can tell the intent of the composition, and it’s usually more pleasing on playback than offensive. It sets itself up, and for the most part just works without much if any extra user intervention. This includes support for quite a number of articulations, playing techniques, and more. The product was built with score interpreting engines in mind from day one.
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I’ve tried GPO with Dorico and basically sounds like Finale. I liked GPO simply because it was low overhead on my computer compared to my bigger libraries. It. Was a good “quick go to” to get a sense of what the composition was sounding like. I still like it for that reason. I’ve been trying to use BBCSO for that but it’s not working 100%.
And Dorico sounds even better when using NotePerformer instead of Halion.
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