Drums triplets with two instruments behaviour

Dorico
1

I know the other threads, I hope this one is seen as different enough to warrant a new thread:

If I deal with drumset notation and triplets in more than one instrument, with Engraving option [put everything in one voice] enabled:
when I want to copy a note into an existing triplet:
If the note is of correct length so it does not explode-out from the triplet
if the position of the new note i want to paste is in the middle of the triplet (first notes of triplets are more forgiving and always work with pasting)

Sometimes it is possible to copy the note into an existing triplet (in the middle!) without the copied note to be a triplet, and
sometimes one need to explicitly create a triplet, copy notes and the triplet marking, and then Dorico fuses both triplets with a satisfactory clean result, and
sometimes the triplets stack on top of each other.

I should be anticipating what causes which result by now, but it would be of great help if anyone could explain this to me, because more often than not — I have to redo a group couple of times before I finally do it the right way.
I have made 2 videos explaining my process, reasoning and effects.
One video is a success story, pasting a note in the middle of existing triplet
Second one is a struggle story, trying to paste note in the middle (end) of an existing triplet, trying to copy it with a triplet marking, and then rewriting the triplet in the other drum instrument, which allows to paste a note, but only if the triplet marking is also copied.

So sometimes it works without the triplet marking, sometimes with a triplet marking, and sometimes only works if the other instrument (higher note?) is with the triplet first. Please advise, and thank you for your time!

Videos:

I would like to clarify, that I know that copying a note without a triplet marking should produce a normal (duple) note — as we see in the second video. But then why the first video works, and spoils me with such great results without needing to do any of that?
Is this because in the first video I copy into a triplet made with a higher note? Is this because I copy a 16th note in the middle, and not a potentially 8th note in the end, making it a duple?

2

This basically amounts to the same issue as has been rehearsed here a number of times in the past: when you create notes in percussion kits in the middle of tuplets, Dorico may need to also create a new tuplet in the voice to which the instrument belongs, and it doesn’t always do so when it should. Some of these cases will be improved in the next version of Dorico. In the meantime I believe you will have more success if you input the note on the second percussion instrument directly rather than copy and paste it: when you input the note, Dorico will make sure that any necessary tuplets are created in a way that it doesn’t when you use copy and paste (which is what is happening when you use Alt+click or R). None of this is ideal, obviously, and it’s something we will continue to work on in future versions of the software.

3

Thank you for this clarification! This helps a lot.

4

I think this should’ve been resolved in 3.5, but I encountered another problem, that is not necessarily exactly the one described here.
While trying out a good way to notate a triplet in a DrumSet, I fiddled around with extra voices, a second snare etc…

It all basically comes down to this: can someone else please try to enter the last triplet in the snare?
Just nothing happens for me.
(other instruments are affected too, but all the “native” downstem ones seem to work)
It was working well before I fiddled around and it is working in new projects.
doricobugperc.dorico.zip (525 KB)

5

The usual workarounds work - switching to single line instruments or entering on a different instrument and then using Alt-Up/Down to get to the snare (and then deleting a redundant upstem tuplet) - but yeah, something’s weird.

6

The alt method didn’t work here either. I only tried grid not single line… I thought it wouldn’t make a difference between these two really, but now i see how it could.

7

One can actually try to delete the triplet altogether and then re-enter it. It just doesn’t work.
In new projects it works.
I don’t need this project, I just stumbled upon it so I decided to report it.
I think what I did was something along:
Change the original snare to upstem after successfully entering the triplets.
Making that snare upstem (breaks the triplet)
Create a second snare with downstem 1, just as kick
Entering the triplet but leaving the quarters.
Fiddling around with extra voices to get rid of rests (don’t really know what I did)
Delete downstem snare
Make original snare downstem again
Voila: broken project.
I used the basic drum kit