DSD support

WaveLab
#1

Hi PG

First of all, congratulations to you and your team to the new WL 10 pro version. I had a short look, and will use it in the next days, to see if my plugins works correctly.
I read in the Steinberg description of WaveLab that a step by step adjustment will be follow with additional functions etc.
Do you have any planings to add a DSD im- and export to WL 10? Many of my productions made in DSD, and it would be fine to use these files direct in WL 10 and make later on a DSD export. Also I see that the max. sample rate is 192kHz. There are any planings to make 384kHz also available?

Thanks
Heinz
Wave Star Pro
HR Audio Productions

#2

Sorry, there is not short-time plan for DSD.

#3

Hi Heinz:

I have been asking for this since version 7. It is not serious for a supposing proffesional program like Wavelab “Pro”.

If you wish to use full DSD support take a look at Sound Forge Pro 13 which includes Spectralayers 6
https://www.magix.com/gb/music/sound-forge/sound-forge-pro/

Also for conversion take a look at EZ CD Audio Converter
https://www.poikosoft.com/

And finally XISRC

Best wishes

Jorge Grundman

#4

384 kHz was always in there before. Is it no longer?

#5

Yes it is, but not in the default menu (that you can customize).
But are you really using 384k?

#6

Anybody using DSD would be using 352.8k for DXD I would think. I tried it once in Wavelab, and it seemed to work ok.

#7

Hi Jorge

For me it was also a little suprise that such a great program like WaveLab doesn’t support DSD. We live in the new high resolution audio world with the new player generation like Fiio; Astel & Kern and others, and all these players support native DSD audio. I see the new “Sound Forge 13” software, and I know that they support DSD import and export. I work on a Mac System and the Sound Forge 2.0 for Mac don’t support DSD. I think the next version will have it on board.
I also use the XISRC software, and the internal software from Tascam to convert from DSD to PCM 24bit/192. I also had a look to the Weiss Saracon Converter, but here the price for the DSD version is a little high.
On the other hand I am a great ‘fan’ of the WaveLab software, because I work since many years with this Audio editior, and I am very satisfied with this program.
DSD would be a great highlight for WaveLab 11. I am sure that in 3 years the standard audio format will be DSD or other high resolution formats.

best wishes

Heinz

#8

Heinz, If you’re converting from DSD to PCM and back in other programs, you should be able to do this in Wavelab if you create a 384k or 352.8k montage and add your 384k or 352.8k PCM files. If those numbers aren’t there in Wavelab, click customize to add them as PG said.

The only thing that’s missing is the DSD/PCM/DSD conversion as far as I can tell, taking a quick look at the Sound Forge page. (although they say they have an even higher PCM rate (768 kHz), I guess because DSD 256 is a newer higher rate, somebody thought they should go even higher with the PCM “DXD” rate (?).

But isn’t that how Sound Forge is doing this? Entirely “DXD” (PCM) for the editing and processing, and then conversion back to DSD?

I guess it’s not exactly how Sonoma (Pure DSD?) or Pyramix (Pure DSD with DXD(PCM) where needed?) generally do it, but there’s a big price difference there too.

#9

That’s what I was thinking as well. Can you even actually do anything but cut/splice/basic source destination editing in Sonoma? It’s been quite a while (DSD is not exactly an ‘in demand’ format in my jurisdiction) but I thought you still had to convert this to PCM (I have SaraCon) to process audio with plugs etc. I’m not up-to-date though.

#10

I think you’re right about Sonoma, Rat. I thought for some reason that they had somehow designed and integrated an EQ that could work with native DSD into the program at some point, but I don’t see anything like that looking at their product pages.

Just looking at product sheets, it looks like Sonoma and the free Tascam DSD editing software do native pure dsd editing. And Pyramix can do native pure with dxd pcm inserts (?) where processing is needed (?). Not sure I’ve got that right though.

Sound Forge and Soundit Pro do “DXD” (PCM) only as far as I can tell. (Convert from DSD to very high rate PCM, 352.8k and up, edit, process, fades, plugins in PCM, and then convert back to DSD for final output).

Seems like Wavelab could do this if DSD conversion/input/output and higher rate 768k PCM was added. Still a certain amount of work, but doesn’t seem like as much work if all the PCM functions are already there. Free programs like Foobar (win) and XLD (mac) already do DSD / PCM file conversions, so it’s not like it’s not a fairly common thing.

I’m open to corrections. I have very limited experience with DSD (Korg and Tascam software, Tascam DA3000), and just relaying what I’ve read about the others.

p.s. I’m pretty sure I got at least some plugins to work with 384k pcm in Wavelab when I tried it, if that’s a consideration. Maybe many plugins work at the very high rates, really not sure.

#11

There is a list of plugs that ‘work’ but it’s on another products site and it would be bad form (and of no relevance) to post it here I think.

The caveat … and one of the elephants in the room (no voxengo pun intended) … is while they may ‘work’ it’s what they are doing and how they handle things internally that also needs to be considered. It’s not always clear and maybe there’s a bit of unseen up/down sampling going on. Which may or may not be something to be concerned about … there’s some pretty smart developers that seem to worry that any serial processing above (say 192 kHz sample rate) will tend to accumulate unacceptable levels of HF content, which in turn potentially creates severe quality problems as soon it hits a nonlinear device, like a final limiter.

Anyway, generally, this stuff is above my pay grade.

#12

It makes sense if you work with an AXR4 in 384kHz and perhaps with 32bit audio.
It‘s not common, but a few units should be sold.