Hello- I just purchased Dorico 4 for ease of use. Imagine my frustration when I accessed the Editing Notes Tutorial from the Steinberg Hub on my Mac that it is telling me to use the Alt key and up/down arrows to change note pitch. I got nothing.
I spent time troubleshooting my Logitech Keyboard only to discover after extensive trial and error and chatting with support that the correct shortcut key on the Mac to accomplish this is Opt. The agent then falsely claimed that the tutorials were NOT OS specific when they are: THEY ARE SPECIFIC TO PC!
Why on earth is a tutorial launched from a Mac showing PC key shortcuts? I understand you only want to create one tutorial. If that’s the case then provide shortcut keys for BOTH operating systems. This has provided a terrible out of box software experience and made me question buying the software.
When people take the time to launch a tutorial, please show them the correct information and don’t assume that folks inherently know shortcut equivalents between two operating systems!
I will keep using the software for the next 13 days. If I find my self frustrated too many more times I will just return the software. Very disappointed in Steinberg as I’m not having a smooth start with Dorico 4.
Since those providing Dorico support are always anxious to make it more helpful, could you provide a specific reference (title or link?) to the tutorial(s) that provided incomplete information for Mac users? I am sure those responsible for the documentation would want to know about it even if changing it does not prove possible.
As I mentioned in my previous post, the tutorial was accessed from within Dorico 4.3.30 on a Mac. I am not seeing anyway to retrieve a link. Please reference the attached screenshot for how I accessed the tutorial.
Yes, I see what you mean. Needless to say, even as a Windows user, I am surprised. Thanks for mentioning this. I’m pretty sure that, like the developers and most if not all users here, I want Dorico to be as easy to access as possible regardless of platform.
Maybe calm your fury at the development team? If your Logitech keyboard has Alt and Opt as different keys, that’s hardly their fault.
They are normally pretty conscientious in detailing the Command/CTRL difference between Mac and PC shortcuts.
For the record: any PC shortcut that says CTRL will be replaced by Command on the Mac.
Following the provided instructions did not work and I spent time troubleshooting what should be a simple tutorial. Typically beginner users do not have advanced knowledge–that’s why they are beginners and taking tutorials. I’m perplexed why someone does not understand that this was frustrating. Yes, I am annoyed and disappointed, but not “furious”. I believe OOTB box experience is important and if content is not working and caused frustration the vendor should know about it.
If Dorico wants to introduce shortcut keys in the tutorials then they should work–the first time AND for all users regardless of platform. Again, clear instructions with a simple little blurb like “Option (or Alt) for Mac users” would have saved me 30 minutes and prevented a chat with a support agent. Everyone’s time is valuable.
There is another option available if brevity is the goal, and that is to not mention any keyboard shortcuts in the beginner tutorials and solely focus on the GUI which I understand is the same for both Mac and PC. EDIT: It appears there is no option to change note pitch with the mouse so supplying accurate keyboard shortcuts here is important.
The goal of the post is to share my experience and to improve the tutorial. I agree, a complaint without any suggestions is not helpful. In this post I have provided constructive solutions for improving the content for all who will follow. I belileve that is valuable. Hopefully these suggestions are implemented. If they are they will prevent further frustration and improve customer satisfaction.
if I interpret your Logitec keyboard design, it seems to be a combined Mac|Win keyboard layout. The keys show the Mac function to the left of the | and the Windows function to the right of the |
I guess you just did not realise that fact.
It is a very specific issue which only occurs on this very keyboard (if you haven’t read the instructions…)
Regardless of the opt/Alt shenanigans, the tutorial really should specify that Cmd needs to be used on Mac in place of Ctrl (see screenshot in the original post). It is indisputable that Mac keyboards feature a key labelled control or ctrl that does not do the same thing as ctrl on Windows keyboards.
@k_b Yes, the keyboard has a combined Mac|Win layout. But the tutorial tells me to press Alt which is not present on the Mac side, so I tried the Windows side with no success. In my defense I was eager to get started with Dorico at 6:30am local time before work.
The Logitech MX Quick Start Guide (sorry I cannot include a link) does not include the helpful information earlier shared by @benwiggy that Option is interchangeable with Alt nor does it cover the nuances of a hybrid keyboard.
Again, if the tutorial text included “Alt (or Option or Opt)” or better yet the Option graphic
the problem is avoided, there is no frustration, no support contact and no post. Is what I’m suggesting that unreasonable? All I’m seeking is clarity of what key to press in a tutorial especially when a given function can only be accessed that way.
Due to Logitech’s commitment to responsible packaging and sustainability (which I support) no other manual is included. I know how to operate my keyboard. This is the first time this issue has arisen. I kindly encourage forum participants to use caution on making assumptions or assertions that others haven’t read instructions.
I am sorry having assumed that you haven’t read the specific instructions.
I like the symbol of the alt or option key, it shows a rail flank, symbolising one has Options or Alternatives at that point.
The developers read every post on this forum and take actions.
I guess you are impatient, but a brief glance at the manual will show both Mac and PC keystrokes (Yes, I agree the specific tutorial you chose is wrong, but that is definitely the exception rather than the rule).
Rest assured, you will be frustrated over the next 13 days! Dorico has a steep learning curve, especially if you have previously used Sibelius/Finale/MuseScore workflows.
It is well worth taking the time to work through the First Steps Guide (which you will see contains keystrokes for both PC and Mac).
Thanks for reporting this, @gadgetguy71. I’m the person who wrote the text for these guided tutorials a while ago, and honestly off the top of my head I can’t remember whether we implemented a mechanism to replace those shortcuts, but you have certainly given me a kick up the backside to go and check.
I’m sorry that you’ve found using those tutorials a frustrating experience. Naturally that is of course the exact opposite of our intention.
Thanks @Janus . I will be reading the manual for sure this week and will give Dorico a fair shot. I’m a manual reader for sure. I appreciate you sharing the link. One less thing to hunt for.
MuseScore 4 occasionally crashes for me hence the interest in Dorico. Finale was a no go because of 1. how old it is (working in the software industry I am well aware of technical debt for legacy products) and 2. it depends on a lot of plugins to deliver what I consider core functionality. I also wanted native support for SMuFL and Music XML import/export so Dorico it was.
Early this morning and out of the “box” I started with the tutorial. The purpose of the post was to bring attention to the confusion surrounding keyboard shortcuts. I am beyond happy for the progress we’ve made together and super excited that this post has earned the attention and feedback of Mr. @dspreadbury who is going to look into this! (I knew who Daniel was before purchasing Dorico as I’ve been reading his comments on the Scoring Notes blog.)
If you’re starting out and interested in written manuals, I’d recommend beginning with our First Steps guide, rather than diving straight into the full Operation Manual.
It’s a step-by-step guided tutorial that takes you through a bunch of key functionality, and will help you pick up some of our terms, names etc which in turn should make your future use of the OM a bit more streamlined.
Just searched this topic as a new user and surprised to see the issue was brought up so long ago and not fixed. The very first experience with the software and is it teaching me to use the Alt key, when on Mac I do not have an alt key. I suppose after this long I will not expect a change, and will adjust accordingly but it’s a disappointing way to start out seeing a fix suggested this far back and it never being remedied.
