Editing symbol for tenuto

If I try to delete the glyphs for tenuto above and tenuto below with glyphs from Soli font, and attempt to make them thicker by using two, after I click OK it reverts to Dorico.

Is what I am doing just not allowed? And why is Soli font using Bravura articulations?

[There’s a related topic here, but that was before the Bravura issue became apparent.]

Dorico Windows 11 Insider Preview.

As far as I know, you should be able to replace any glyph in the current music font with one from another font – but you have to specify the font. The menu defaults to Bravura, even if that’s not the current music font.


However, it’s possible that Soli doesn’t actually have a tenuto, and Dorico is “falling back” on Bravura to supply the missing glyph.

Ah, that would be it. @Nordine could you comment?

Hi, will have a look at it, I am in holidays till 15 August.

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Screenshots from Dorico 5 on Windows 11:

Here is the above Tenuto from Soli: (2 tenutos (the same one) above the other)

Where is the problem?

Here is the below Tenuto from Soli again:

Was that your problem?

The problem is that if I do that and close and open the dialog it reverts to Bravura. It’s a mystery.

Then it can’t be a font problem .

Aha! You are right. I will continue to investigate. Thank you for your time.

Are you sure you’re actually doing the right thing, Andrew? You can’t just select the existing glyph in the main grid display and then change the font on the right-hand side. You need to completely remove the existing glyphs from the editor and then add new ones, first choosing the font before you add the glyph to the main grid display.

@dspreadbury I tried that. Then when I add the tenuto above glyph using Soli, it reflects in the projecyt but when I go back to make it thicker it has clearly reverted to Bravura, demonstrably. The setting for Music Font is Soli.

Could it be that it really is using the Soli glyphs but when you come back into the dialog it is not picking up the non-default font name?

I have been able to duplicate this behaviour in Dorico 4. And I tried it with Leipzig font, to use something other than Soli. Same issue.

I am not generally one to say everything is a bug, but explain to me how this is not?

The section in the right is for adding new characters, not altering existing ones. It retains neither the font nor the character range of existing glyphs. 'Twas ever thus.

@pianoleo I don’t understand a word of that. You can’t add new music symbols, so what do you mean? And surely you can alter existing - that is what @Nordine was showing. As for 'twas ever thus, that may be so but reading the manual does not give any indication of that status.

Still baffled and confused. Explain to me why you chose Soli and it reverts to Bravura. Please? Sorry to be obtuse, but it’s not working and that’s the main point. I dislike people harping on about ‘intuitive’ programs, but this does not seem to be intuitive to me at all. Or at least, I am such a dolt I cannot figure it out.

I meant precisely what I typed. The process of replacing, for instance, the tenuto glyph is as follows:

  1. Locate the relevant music symbol in the left side of the dialog.
  2. Select the existing glyph in the middle of the dialog.
  3. Delete it using the trash can icon.
  4. Select the new glyph in the right side of the dialog.
  5. Click the Add Glyph button.

You seem to think that the right side of the dialog refers to what’s already in the centre of the dialog. It doesn’t. It relates only to adding a new glyph/text/graphic (and yes, each Music Symbol may comprise multiple glyphs).

Yes, that’s what I was getting at in my original reply, but Leo has spelled it out much more clearly.

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That’s so weird, it means that what ever SMuFL you may use for your purpose will exhibit the same issue. What if I email/pm you a .dorico score with the edited tenuto glyph to check out?

Nor, there’s no problem using whatever glyph you want to use.
The right side of the dialog - for picking new glyphs - defaults to the Accidentals range of Bravura. Regardless of what font you may be using in your project. Regardless of what glyph is currently in use. Regardless of the fact that accidentals can’t even be edited in the Music Symbols Editor.

This has no impact whatsoever on what glyph(s) is/are currently used for each music symbol in the centre of the dialog.

Yes Leo, I’m quite aware of that, thanks! :wink:

To which issue are you referring, then?

For what it’s worth, I’ve just experimented fairly extensively, and I really don’t think there is an issue here.

I replaced the Tenuto Above glyph with Leipzig’s D.C. glyph, from the Repeats range, just as it’s a particular glyph that cannot possibly be mistaken for Bravura’s (which is Roman rather than Italic)

It took in the score:

I went back into the Music Symbols Editor to make the glyph smaller. It’s still the same Leipzig D.C., but the section on the right had defaulted to Bravura Accidentals.

I made the glyph in the centre smaller:

Hit OK:


@pianoleo Thank you for your great input. But do you really think this is a good user interface design? It’s confused me heavily, and to be honest I think it is plain weird. I don’t recall using any other program that shows this sort of behaviour. I’d expect the properties of the glyph I am editing to show in the properties panel, not the default for accidentals. Maybe this is my conceptual error to regard the right hand side as a properties pane. But I strongly maintain this is weird. And of course the problem is that with a glyph like tenuto it’s basically impossible to tell Bravura and Soli apart - hence your experiment using something obviously recognizably different.

I think you can rationalise it away, but it’s a sub-optimal experience, to put it mildly.

So, maybe that panel should be more clearly labelled ‘Add Object’ or similar, and at the top, instead of just having a button at the bottom, and then what I am calling a properties pane could ne introduced with the font/object information for the currently selected object. Feature request @dspreadbury ?

On a related note, am I the only one who finds the tenuto glyphs in many fonts too thin?

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