Expression map - 2 slots with same articulation symbol?

I have an expression map question:

I’m trying to map two Symphobia patches, Staccato and Staccato Short but wish to use the same staccato symbol (obviously :slight_smile:)

If I select the same preset articulation (staccato) for both of the slots/patches then I only get one ‘lane’ in the key editor, and so have no way to switch between them.

If I create a custom articulation (for the staccato short patch) then I can’t select the same staccato symbol!

I guess I could name the staccato short articulation “stac short” but what a mess that would make of my score. Alternatively if I choose a random symbol for the staccato short notes I would have to manually replace all these with the real staccato symbol in the score later anyway.

What is the workaround for this?

Cheers - Brett

I’m afraid you are already using it :wink:… give the slot a different symbol, then Hide its occurrences in the score, then replace them with a purely graphic symbol.

(sigh…) these timesavers aren’t always what they are cracked up to be.

While I’ve got you, given I don’t know my way around the score editor that well yet, could you tell me how to hide a single articulation’s symbols so then I can replace them?


In the scores menu there’s a Hide/Show command which should also have a key command assigned to it (I’ve changed mine so I can’t tell you what the default is). There’s also a symbol “H” in the tool bar in the score itself if you prefer.

Thanks for your help guys.

One more question (I hope)…

Without setting up keyswitches, is there any way to manually select which slot you want to record from?

Intuitively I want to select the articulation from the expression map list in the inspector but of course this doesn’t work. Is there a way to do this or does the articulation have to be selected from the key/score editor after recording the part?


I’m afraid that’s not possible, as the expression list in the track inspector is for monitoring purposes only.
For “live” switching you can just use your MIDI controller to send any MIDI commands your vst instrument is capable of understanding. For this you don’t need expression maps as such. You need them to be able to edit those articulations later as vst expressions (as opposed to editing standard MIDI data on various controller lanes).

As for your initial question, I think a better solution would be using staccatissimo accent symbol for “staccato short” which you do have in the articulation list.

Thanks for that. A frustrating oversight as far as I’m concerned, as I switch patches/articulations with program changes and program change messages are not passed through with expression maps switched on! I have to turn expression maps off, them program change and record, then switch back. The problem with this is that as soon as I switch maps off I no longer have the articulation list to remind me which program change message is needed (so I have to go to Kontakt to check) and after recording and switching the maps back on, of course my recorded program change message won’t work anyway.

I’m not yet sure if expression maps will actually increase my workload or not. I’ll have to play more to be definative.

Good idea, until I have to use my spiccato articulation :slight_smile:

Thanks for your help though (Steinberg, are you listening?)

It would be great to have some in-built facility to graphically create, import, edit and format our own custom symbols for further use in expression maps just like what we already have for “user symbols” in the score editor, wouldn’t it?

Wholeheartedly agree! Steinberg should also increase the range of available symbols. I cant even see a grace note symbol in the palette.

hello, many years have passed since this discussion … Is it possible now in 2021 to have two slots / attributes with the same symbol?

No. :worried:

12 years after its introduction, Expression Maps feature has not been improved.

It’s always with some emotion that I read posts from our late Vic which are still valid after almost a decade.

I still use slightly different texts/symbols for an articulation that would have different meanings, and the problem is that it ruins the score!

As discussed in other threads, one solution would be to implement what I call “independent” articulations, which would be independent of Expression Maps combinations and its properties would be editable on the fly! Thus the same text would be able to have unlimited meanings.

But that would require a complete revision of the Expression Maps core functionality, which is a major and sensitive work.

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