Expression map bug? Cc “off-event” too late

Hi there. I’m working on an expression map for an instrument, where you can trigger a detachè bowing by pressing the sustain pedal. So I assigned cc 64 in the expression map editor. Since I want it to stop after the last note, I set cc to a lower value on off-event. It works great, until there is a break after the last note. The off-event order will be active after that break. Is there a way to change it?

I put a picture here, so you can see what I mean

And a video link:

I believe the CC64 technique is for live playing only. You should rather specify the note length as 100% (or maybe 99% to be on the safe side) in the Playback Options Override section below the Base and Add-on switches section.

I should’ve been more specific. a bow change only happens when there’s a gap bigger than 31 ms. That number varies with each tempo. So I have five different notelengh conditions. But still sometimes a legato is triggered. I’m using audio modeling.

I don’t think we’ll be able to troubleshoot this without an example project and the expression map itself. Could you please create the simplest possible project that demonstrates the issue (e.g. a single instrument, one or two bars of music) and attach it here? Even though we don’t have the Sample Modeling instruments, Dorico should nevertheless be producing the same MIDI output and so we should be able to see what’s happening.

I had a look at Audio Modelings Solo Strings manual. It appears that, when CC64 is engaged, it will keep playing after a note-off until the next note-on is encountered, which seems to be the problem here. It did not state how CC64 is handled; is any value other than 0 interpreted as “pedal down” or is it just values above 64? You could try CC64=0 to see if that works better that CC64=60.

Thank you! Here is the requested file. I expect the value of cc64 go down to the value i set on “off-Event” after the corresponding note is played. But it keeps up until an other note is played, that has no cc64 assigned.

Thank you for the response. The SWAM Strings work as expected. cc64 values higher than 64 trigger the detaché. As soon as the value is lower than 64 it is set back to normal. But as written above, Dorico keeps cc64 higher than 64 until a note is played, which has no cc64 assignment.

Simply setting the Notelengh to a high percentage doesn’t work, as I described earlier.

@dspreadbury any news on the cc64 thing? Do you need any more Information? Thank you :wink:

No, you need to be patient, sorry. I can’t always drop everything to investigate every user problem within minutes or even hours of it being reported. Please be patient and I will come back to you when I can.

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Ok. No Hurry. I guess I was just too used to fast responses :joy:

Thanks for your patience while I found the time to look into this.

Switches in expression maps are output at the start and end of the playing technique regions, rather than being tied specifically to notes. As you can see from the display of the playing technique regions in the Key Editor, the presence of a rest doesn’t cause a change in playing technique, so the region carries on through the rest.

Changing this is difficult, unfortunately. I’m not sure whether it’s something we would ultimately want to work differently in the way Dorico processes the score for playback – we’d need to think about it.

I was wondering if setting the detachè as an attribute instead of duration might work better - as, for instance, the region for staccato playing technique (an attribute) ends when the written duration ends, i.e. it doesn’t wait for the next note-on (or so it appears, based on when the next articulation starts in the Key Editor).

But when I switch the view to “played duration”, I can see that the region for playing technique follows the written duration.

That was the answer I was hoping not to get. Since I work with performance based Libraries and make expression maps and Audio Modeling as well as Sample Modeling trigger Detaché via Keyswitches or cc this would be a good feature for that.

BTW performance based libraries really shine with the expression maps, since the overall sound is consistent and even the staccatos vary whether it’s applied to a half or to a eights note. But I guess not many Dorico users work with those libraries.

Oh… I forgot: thank you for looking into it. I really appreciate it!