Expression Map Groups Problem

I’m having difficulty getting a particular library to work with expression maps (at least the way I want it to work). I’m creating a map for a marimba.

For this library, each mallet type is a separate patch within the same instance of Kontakt. I have group 1 of the expression map set to trigger the appropriate MIDI channel:

Patch 1: hard mallets (ch 1)
Patch 2: medium mallets (ch 2)
Patch 3: soft mallets (ch 3)

Within each of the above patches, there are 4 articulations triggered by CC1 value ranges. Most libraries don’t work this way, but unfortunately, CC1 is the only way to trigger these. I’ve set them up in group 2 with their output corresponding to a value within the range the library requires. The MIDI channel for these articulations is dependent on which patch is being used, so I left it unspecified in the expression map:

regular strokes = 0-32
dead strokes = 33-64
birch shafts = 65-95
rolls = 96-127

When I try to use the expression map, group 1 works just fine. The group 2 articulations are not working at all. Am I missing something or is this a limitation of expression maps?


Do you trigger 2 articulations at the same time, then? One from the Group 1 (i.e. Medium Mallets, for example) and the 2nd one for the Group 2 (i.e. Dead Strokes, for example).

Unfortunately, Groups don’t work that way at all (I agree, it would be great if you could have three remote keyswitches to set the MIDI channels, then four more “sub” keyswitches to set the articulations for the chosen MIDI channel :wink: )
The sad truth is that you still require a total of 12 VST Expression Slots in your Map (only one slot can be sent out at a time), so, if you want this for “live” playing/recording, you should really just have them all in Group #1, and trigger them from 12 different remote keyswitches.
“Groups” really only have any utility when used with Score Symbols. (you’d still need 12 slots, but when the Score “sees” the correct currently-active combination of symbols, it will then trigger the appropriate slot).

Yes, you can obtain the same result from the MIDI Key Editor window, but the result amounts to the same thing… the currently-active articulation in the lanes for Group 1 and the currently-active articulation in the lanes for Group 2 must correspond with the same combination of articulations on a single slot (so… 12 possible combinations, therefore 12 slots necessary :wink: )… and if you want to trigger them while playing/recording “live”, you still need 12 remote keyswitches :wink:

I had a feeling that was the case. Fortunately, even with 12 slots used, the map will still be super useful. Thanks for the help!

Pulling up this thread from last year that bears on my attempts to incorporate instrument choices along with articulation selection.

I use VSL instruments with the VI Pro sampler. An example of what I’d like to be able to do.

Custom Expression Map:

Group 1:
Triple Horn
Viennese Horn
Horns a4
Horns a8

Group 2:

Group 1 to choose from among Horn instruments. A single keyswitch selects different matrices within VI Pro instance corresponding to the instrument.

Group 2 to choose articulation from among all available articulations within VI Pro matrix using two keyswitches in combination.

I want to start off a Cubase MIDI part by selecting the matrix that contains the horn instrument I want (Group 1). Then with that matrix chosen, I want to select the VI cell within that matrix that corresponds to the articulation I want (Group 2). This way, having mapped all articulations identically for each instrument, I can mix and match instruments and articulations at will. That way I don’t need a track for each instrument, only one for each type of instrument.

I have tested such a scheme and it doesn’t seem to work. I can use EM to select instruments. And I can use EM to select articulations. But I can’t use both in mix and match mode at the same time.

This thread seems to indicate that Expression maps were not designed to work this way. Apparently EM was more a child of the Score system instead of VST instrument system. That’s a cryin’ shame. It seems so logical a way to take advantage of Expression Map programming.

If I’m wrong and I’m just missing something, I’d love to be told so.