Expression Maps Lagging Note ON

So i make extensive use of expression maps for all the different orchestral and cinematic libraries i work with. One thing which is becoming more and more annoying is that selected expression map articulation is triggered AFTER the midi note on command.

This means that rather than having articulations line up with notes they all have to trigger slightly before the note they apply to is triggered. When i have notes close together it gets harder and harder to set the articulation and i am forever having to turn off the snap to grid and then turn it back on again for midi editing.

It also means i have to set all articulations to “Direction” as when they are set to attribute they are triggered too late.

Sorry but this is not true (normally).
Expression Maps articulations data, be it in Directions or in Attributes, are precisely always sent BEFORE the note-on.

How do you know your articulations are sent after?

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i have note b3 quantized on the 1st beat of the bar, i have articualtion “Trill WT” also on the 1st beat of the bar. The note sounded is a standard sustain, the next note played A3 is played as Trill WT, therefore the articulation\keyswitch was sent after the B3 note on and was active when the A3 note played after

I understand what you describe but there is not enough information to see what’s going on.
Is the Trills an Attribute?
Could you please provide a screenshot of your Key Editor showing notes and articulations lane?

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Here you go, i have tried changing between direction and attribute and it makes no difference.
So playing this in a loop results in the following:
1st Pass - C4 Long
1st Pass - B3 Long
1st Pass - A3 Tremolo
1st Pass - G3 Trill Half Tone
2nd Pass - C4 Trill Whole Tone
2nd Pass - B3 Long
2nd Pass - A3 Tremolo
2nd Pass - G3 Trill Half Tone

Can you post an image of the version where you used Attributes?

Based on his screenshot and the articulations that are heard, I find it curious!
I suspect his (VST) instrument.

Edit: there is a way to check if the problem is on Cubase side.

@steve no as all i did was change the type for the trill articulations.

@Maestro this is working with an instance of Komplete Kontrol which in turn has an instance of Kontakt 6 and in turn has an instance of Audio Imperia Areia Strings.

I see, the reason I asked is that the screen shot you posted above doesn’t show that. All the articulations are Directions in it.

Do tell! :slight_smile:

No, I was thinking of MIDI Monitor, but it won’t help … :frowning:

I think the problem resides in Komplete Kontrol or in Kontakt.
You can test by loading Kontakt directly into Cubase and see if you still have this issue.

The Midi Monitor multi script in Kontakt can display what messages are received by Kontakt. @Maestro, why do you think that it wouldn’t help?


@deetee , maybe the Areia Library needs the CC first. Try moving the controller message to the top (in Expression Map Setup/Output Mapping). Do this for the first articulation only and see if that changes anything.
Also, if you’re using any custom script (instrument script or multi script), bypass it and do the test again.

Expression maps work beautifully with the Kontakt Factory Library, so the problem resides, as @Maestro said, in the VSTi program you’re using.

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Because I was referring to the MIDI Monitor in Cubase.
You are right, MIDI Monitor in Kontakt will definately tell you the order the data is received.
Again I think the problem is that Kontakt is hosted in Komplete Kontrol, thus the issue is with the latter.

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Does this happen on all instruments or just some? I noticed one manufacturer’s Kontakt articulations wouldn’t as expected like you describe, and the only solution was to program ahead. But I have only come across one Kontakt like that.

BTW, I am still using this method shown (used since previous Cubase version) of ‘blank’ slots and personally will ‘reset’ the expression on each midi part that I use. It seems to keep things better, so far.

Its only on some and not all the time either, also its not limited to expression maps but the underlying CC messages, as i have a library where if you press the sustain pedal before\on the note it plays it as a legato otherwise it plays as a staccato.

I may be late to the party but I think I may have found the problem. I’ve been having the same issue. Some notes don’t change articulation on time and also the first note when playing sometimes misfires. I think the cause could be the same for both issues: External Sync in Kontakt.

Try turning off ES in Kontakt. I did that and that fixed both issues for me so far. Now, of course this is a problem if your instrument needs to be tempo synced but for articulations like normal legatos, longs, shorts, etc then you can safely turn off ES.

I still think it shouldn’t behave this way so I submitted a support ticket to NI reporting this. Let’s see what they say.

Anyways, hope this fixes your issue.

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