Feature requests: More intelligent slur input, and ability to hide cautionary clefs

[jgregori37]

Hello,

Former longtime Sibelius user here, who converted ~3 years ago to using Dorico (and loving it). Relearning notation through the lens of Dorico has been a wonderful experience and, rest assured, I will never go back.

That said, there are two sensible things that Sibelius offered that, AFAIK, Dorico does not – and I very much wish it did. Powers that be, kindly consider these two feature requests for a future update:

First, I wish for more intelligent slur-ending behavior during note input. Specifically, I’d love an option to have a slur end automatically when I create a rest during input. The following picture and scenario describe what I mean:

1. In Write Mode: I highlight whole rest where I wanted to begin input.
2. I press “Enter” to begin note input.
3. I press 7 for half note.
4. [It’s treble clef, so] I press C.
5. I press “S” to begin a slur.
6. I press 6 for quarter notes.
7. I press D, E.
8. I press 7, period for dotted half note.
9. I press Ctrl-alt-A (for an A below my last inputted note, rather than above).
10. I press 6 for quarter notes.
11. I press space bar for a quarter rest - this moves the cursor to the start of the next bar.
12. I press 7 for half note.
13. I press B.

The slur follows input across the rest by default. Yes, I know full well that Shift-S after step 9 would have ended the slur. In Sibelius, though, this wouldn’t have been necessary. The slur would simply have intelligently ended on the dotted-half A and allowed me to go on with [unslurred] input without a Shift-S. Could there be some option that might save keystrokes and tell Dorico “When a slur is invoked, if input reaches a rest and then continues with notes after the rest, end the slur rather than carry it across the rest”?

(I have no data to back up this claim, but I suspect that most of the time, in most engraved music, slurs actually end before rests rather than carrying over them. Shouldn’t Dorico’s default behavior for inputting slurs reflect this reality, or at least offer an option to enable such a behavior?)

Second, and much more straightforwardly, I wish for the ability to hide cautionary clefs, especially at the ends of systems. Sibelius allowed this too, and it was both easy and helpful.

Thank you for your consideration!

[dspreadbury]

Thanks for your feedback. You can already hide a cautionary clef at the end of a system: select the clef change itself and activate the Hide property.

I’ll discuss your proposal that hitting Space while slur input is active should end the slur with the team, and see what the consensus is.

[benwiggy]

@dspreadbury

You can already hide a cautionary clef at the end of a system: select the clef change itself and activate the Hide property.

Unless I’m missing something, that hides the Clef itself, not just the cautionary.

@jgregori37

I wish for the ability to hide cautionary clefs, especially at the ends of systems.

Can a cautionary clef be anywhere else than the end of a system..?

You can hide a cautionary with the old trick of adding a Coda to the next system, then hiding the Coda symbols and setting the indent to Zero.

While I agree that there is some merit in allowing cautionaries to be hidden (see previous discussions about keys and time sigs) – dare I ask the content in which you don’t want readers to be warned of a clef change?

[Janus]

@dspreadbury

I’ll discuss your proposal that hitting Space while slur input is active should end the slur with the team, and see what the consensus is.

(It’s a NO from me! Simply because long slurs are frequently used as phrase markers and phrases often include rests)

Much more useful would be R repeating the slur from the note after the end of the current slur (please?).

[jgregori37]

Relax, Janus; I’m not asking for the present behavior to be excised from the program, I’m just asking that there be an option to have the program behave in a different – and probably much more commonly useful – way.

If you reread the OP, you’ll see that I said “I’d love an option to have a slur end automatically when I create a rest during input.” Nowhere do I ask for the current behavior to be completely quashed.

[jgregori37]

@benwiggy – You’re correct re: Daniel’s clef-hiding suggestion. When I try this, it does remove the cautionary clef, but it also removes the new clef at the start of the next system.

Also, fair point re: “Can a cautionary clef be anywhere else…”? I suppose not, or else it wouldn’t be cautionary.

As for the Coda workaround: I’d never heard of that; I guess I can give it a go.

The context of my request: I’m re-engraving another composer’s piece for solo piano. Depending on the texture, the piece distributes the music over two, three, or four staves. So I’ve assigned two piano instruments to the solo player in Setup, and have been hiding staves when they are unused. This had been working fine until one particular system break, where the music must go down from three staves (top one in treble clef, bottom two in bass clef before the break) to two staves (written in treble top / bass bottom after the break). I have labeled the four staves 1-4 in this image for convenience; Staves 1 & 2 belong to the first of the two piano instruments; Staves 3 & 4 to the second.

Now ideally, I’d love to put the music after this system break on Staves 3 & 4 – as this would simplify things downstream in the engraving when more staves return, allow cross-staff notation / beaming, more easily permit cross-staff counterpoint lines, and accurately playback single dynamic markings between the two staves to boot. But I can’t do this without a clef change on Staff 3 at the aforementioned system break.

In this context, the reader is perfectly able to accept that the second system begins with treble and bass clefs without needing to see a clef change at the end of the first system. So that’s why I’d like to have a clef change go into effect at the system break without a cautionary – if I could change the clef at the end of the first system on Staff 3, but hide the cautionary, my problems would be solved. I could just write on Staves 3 & 4 and be golden.

I guess I could create a third piano instrument…but it’d be so much easier just to be able to hide cautionary clefs.

Final constraint: Since this is a re-engraving, my job is to make the new engraving look as much like the old as possible. So reshuffling actual musical content from one staff to another in the new engraving isn’t really an option.

Whew! Hope that’s clear.

[charles_piano]

@jgregori37

I’ve assigned two piano instruments to the solo player in Setup, and have been hiding staves when they are unused.

You could also have a single instrument and add or remove staves where needed (that would have solved your clef issue here):

Galley view:

[jgregori37]

@dspreadbury - Thanks for your response, and for considering what I’m requesting, both as regards slur input behavior and hiding cautionary clefs.

I’m sorry to say that your suggestion to use the “Hide” property on a clef change works too well - it not only hides the cautionary clef, but also hides the new clef at the start of the next system. If you have a moment and can read my response to @benwiggy above, you’ll see the context of my request on this. All I need to do is hide the cautionary clef at the end of the previous system.

There are very, very few times that I wish to have facets of Sibelius back at my fingertips, but the cases I’ve described here are two of them.

Thanks again!

[benwiggy]

@jgregori37

So I’ve assigned two piano instruments to the solo player in Setup, and have been hiding staves when they are unused.

Any reason you didn’t just add an extra staff to the piano part…?

[jgregori37]

@charles_piano and @benwiggy : Ah…maybe this was the way to go.
I appreciate you both taking the time to respond!