From my look at the MusicXML 3.1 file above, I can definitely see the information that is missing is there, in both metadata and page formatting instructions. So the net appears to be that Dorico currently isn’t importing (or honoring if it does import it) the information.
I’m sure the flow stuff is useful for its purposes, but, as someone whose notation needs are relatively simple (mostly lead sheets and sheet music), but who also needed certain formatting-related features of the high-end versions of the notation programs I’ve used, the whole flow thing was the most confusing aspect of Dorico when I switched From Finale Pro v26. Perhaps in the future it might be possible to give an option on importing this sort of information in MusicXML whether to import the information at the project or flow level?
In general (even in the notation aspects), I can see that there will be a lot of cleanup needed in my "relatively simple lead sheets relating to formatting considerations if/when I need to revisit them in Dorico.
I don’t often deal with lead sheets, but it occurs to me that MusicXML was created to deal with the niceties of music notation and there’s not much notation in a lead sheet. Would it not be quicker simply to re-write the sheet in Dorico? (cue: people throwing large objects at me)
You might be surprised. In some ways I was, for example that I needed the Pro versions of Dorico and Finale (I’d originally started from Passport Designs’ now-long-defunct Encore) rather than just being able to use basic versions.
A fair amount has to do with formatting, especially with respect to lyrics, how ties, slurs, and (vocal) melismas match up (or don’t). There are also needs for secondary parts that may slightly overlap with the vocal melody (e.g. the notated introductory 4 bars in my conversion example). These considerations also have bearing on fits of measures in lines and on pages (one thing that did not come across in the Finale-MusicXML-Dorico conversion). And, of course, there is the header/footer information.
But a lot of time goes into dealing with the fit of lyrics and music for readability, correctness, etc. And there is making chord (names or diagrams – I often use the latter, but not in this example) line up when there aren’t one-to-one mappings between note and chord locations, and there are still instructions, such as the swung 8th notes one here. And, of course, there are considerations like first and second endings, D.S./Coda markings, second/third verse alignments (not applicable to this song, but applicable to many), etc. since keeping the number of pages down is always a goal (can the whole song fit on a music stand?).
Anyway, the bottom line is, while entering the notes alone may go quickly (at least once I remember all the things I’ve forgotten on that front since the last time I used the notation program – it’s not like I do that every day or even every month), and entering basic lyrics usually isn’t too much slower, getting to a completed, printable lead sheet always takes me quite a while. At least doing a conversion of older ones will provide a start on the basics, with the remainder of the work (hopefully) being dealing with the formatting, both at the high-level (e.g. page headers/footers, controlling measure boundaries, etc.) and at the notation quirks level (e.g. stem direction changes, fixing “weird” stuff like the overlapping rests and notes where the instrumental intro and vocal pickup notes share a measure, etc.).
Thanks! Knowing about the import options may indeed be useful, and I see this shows the copying flow information mentioned previously (and hiding the flow name). I’ll have to do some experimentation to see if I can get cleaner conversions once I get more time.
The other thing I’m wondering is if there is a way to use one of my own Dorico templates (e.g. I have one for making new lead sheets that make a number of my usual formatting decisions, especially on first and subsequent page headers/footers) in conjunction with a MusicXML import of a lead sheet to have it conform to those template choices. I tried a very quick experiment with that this morning, but it wasn’t seeming to do what I was hoping, and I didn’t have time to experiment further. (It also had added an extra measure and page at the start, assumedly because there has to be an initial measure in a template, but perhaps I could just delete that to get the imported pages to move up a page.)
I accept all your points (I ducked that large object!)
My suggestion was simply that perhaps setting up a Dorico template from scratch, and re-entering the content, might actually be quicker and less stressful than transferring material via XML.
My suggestion is to setup everything possible as global settings (in the Library menu). Then do as little as possible of tweaking in any actual project.
Once there is a good project to use as template, use the library manager. It can be used to compare just about all default settings between the current “project” and your reference. You then select the things you want to copy over. It admittedly it is different from Finale to setup defaults in Dorico instead of tweaking a project, but it pays back. Applying the defaults to a new project is very easy (use the icons to the left for copying everything in each group).
I think I did some of this early on in my use of Dorico (I started with V4, I think shortly after it came out). I also created a specific template for creating new lead sheets that (from memory – it’s been at least a number of months since the last time I made one) gets my basic page formatting set up and probably makes a few other decisions. So that is what I use when starting a new project, though it’s not clear at this point if that could apply to these MusicXML (from Finale) conversions.
Thanks for the tip on the Library Manager. I did a quick experiment last night, and I see it seems to be able to detect certain differences between an existing project and one you’re working on and rectify some of those differences. I didn’t have time to explore it in any depth, though my quick impression was it may have helped on some things and not others. But those were just quick impressions. I’ll need to explore more when I have more time.
I do have a Dorico template I set up relatively early on in my use of Dorico. But I’m decidedly not fast at entering even the basic note data from scratch, so my feeling is that being able to get that in in bulk form (even with a single lead sheet, no less the many I have – I think I batch converted 60-70 of them from Finale to MusicXML the other day, and there will still be a number of others, currently in Encore format that I need to first read into Finale Allegro 2007, then save in Finale format, probably upgrade into the newer Finale format to be able to get a higher level of MusicXML, then convert to MusicXML), then just deal with whatever doesn’t come cleanly across is likely to save a lot of time and cut down on mistakes.
Mind you, I’m mostly doing this for data preservation purposes in case I decide to revise lead sheets in the future. In most cases, I have good PDF print images (from Finale), and those serve most of my typical needs.
Yes. But unfortunately that’s not going to happen, so you’d probably earn time, energy and mind power by starting using what is there. Take this as an opportunity instead of a curse…
Of course, easier said from my part than done, especially when you’ve been using that tool for so long.
Fortunately, there is a whole lot of nice people that will help you take that route so that it’s as painless as possible
If you mean title, composer/lyricist/copyright etc., that information does transfer over if you use Finale’s File Info tab in Score Manager. In the Project Info dialog it will be in Flow 1 and it’s a simple matter to copy it to the project.
I tried that. (I’m in the same situation, having many old Finale files and haven’t upgraded beyond v26.) My correspondence brought me only a repetition of the official “we are offering this route to our customers as the best way forward” line, without any option for those of us who are already Dorico users.
