Flow Heading Change

Hi there I was wondering if the forum Brains trust might be able to shed some light on this issue.

I’m creating an exam and using each Flow as a separate question. I created a new flow heading in the engrave section and have the flow number and flow title tokens in a text box in there.

This was working for a while just fine then inexplicably, the flow headings disappeared. I have used “Insert Flow Heading Change” to try and reapply the Flow Headings on all pages but to no avail. I have also turned the “Show Flow Headings” dialogue to “Never” and then back to “For All Flows” in the Layout Options dialogue - and i still have no flow headers.

Any ideas what I’m doing wrong?

Also - if i add a music frame within a custom master page I do get Flow Headings appearing in the flows. But if I add the music frame straight into engrave mode i get no Flow Headings. Using a master page won’t work for me as I just wanted to add various Section text boxes headers and then the required flows per section - each page will be different so my master page is blank except for the header.
I don’t know if I’m making any sense here…

If you’re able to post the project here (zipped up so it’s a .zip file to be allowed to attach) that’ll probably be the easiest way for people to work out what’s going on.

Thanks Lillie - i worked it out, will take the post off.

Feel free to leave it up! Maybe with an additional comment about how you solved it, in case that helps future users.

Some of us would be interested in what you discovered in case down the road we find ourselves in the same situation you did and wonder what to do.

Actually I didn’t work it out!

You can see in the Attachment the flow headings are appearing on Pg 1 and half way through page 2 of the file, then in the following frame I no longer have the flow headings.

What I would ideally like is to have the master page completely blank except for the header and page number and then be able to add specific music and text frames straight into Engrave mode (not into the Master Page I am using) - and utilise the Flow Headings as questions.

I’m assuming I’m going about it the wrong way, would appreciate any assistance clearing it up. Thanks
Final Exam.zip (539 KB)

Wow, this is a fairly complicated layout! Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, there’s all sorts of ways to achieve what you need. Here are just my personal thoughts/recommendations based on my own preferences.

I think the flow headings aren’t appearing because you changed something on pages that already had page overrides (for example, if you remove overrides from your page 3, flow headings reappear). Flow headings are designed to move automatically with the music, but page overrides tell Dorico not to change the frames on that page at all, not even if you update the underlying master page, and flow headings are technically frames. I also don’t think it’s possible to show flow headings automatically in layout frames, but I’ll double-check that. So I would probably recommend trying to use Dorico’s master pages, master page frame chains, and automatic flow headings as much as possible and leaving local page adjustments/overrides until the end if you can - particularly given the number of separate flows & flow headings it looks like you’ll be handling.

Here’s an amended example - I’ve edited the First and Default master pages in a duplicated master page set to be closer to what you had arrived at in your project, including editing the paragraph styles at that higher level rather than in individual text frames (which I can see you’d already started doing). I quite like to have master pages as a “base” at the very least, so if I later need to remove local page overrides for some reason, I don’t go all the way back to square 1.

I also put the “Section 1” etc info into fields in Project Info, so they’re “safe” in the project and can be called up using tokens - they’re in fields for the first flow in the section, so Flow 1 for section 1 and Flow 9 for section 2. I also changed the alignment of the page number paragraph style to “Left” - if you want consistent formatting on every page, that will stop it appearing on the right edge of text frames on odd pages, even if that text frame is in the top-left corner because you copied Left-Right when editing the master page. (We’ve all been there.) If you want the project title/page number to swap depending on which side they appear, just edit the text frames and paragraph style settings accordingly.

General tips: keep an eye on your frame chains, you had at least three available when it looks like a continuous stream of music, just separated with text frames for new sections? It’s probably easier to work with fewer frame chains. Also, avoid locking all 4 edge constraints on frames on master pages - if you then use that master page in a layout with different page margins, the frames can get distorted or pushed beyond the margins. Lastly, it’s not always that important, but be aware of the difference between “Current Page Only” and “From This Page Onwards” when inserting master page changes - in your project, you had two master page changes “From This Page Onwards” on two adjacent pages, when I suspect you maybe meant just those pages? For obvious reasons, this can have knock-on effects on subsequent pages.

Final Exam_LH.dorico.zip (480 KB)

Thanks very kindly Llllie, that awesome. I’ll check it out and take onboard all your recommendations.

Hi Lillie,
The way you set it up helps me understand the process better. It does answer a question about the overall methodology for setting up something like this.
I initially had in my mind that there would be one master page that could be a kind of blank slate and that i could choose the necessary flows into frames directly into the layout as i created the worksheet/exam, and the Flow Headings would appear. That would be intuitive to me and I still don’t quite understand why the Flow Headings don’t automatically show in this scenario even if there has been a page override - maybe this would be a useful addition for some?
The solution you provided works well and I’ll be able to use it for sure. I do see it as kind of a disadvantage that I have to setup a specific master page for every variation in page formatting that occurs e.g. you setup the "split halfway’ which works specifically for the 2nd page - but: 1) if i wanted to add another flow to the upper frame I would have to go back into the ‘split halfway’ editing page dialog and readjust the frames 2) In a scenario where there are many page layout variations across the file there will have to be multiple master pages to fit every variation? eg half-split, 1/3 split, 3/5 split or pages where there are more than two splits. It is quite possible that I have misunderstood this though…!

Thanks for pointing out the otherinfo token it’s super useful and it hadn’t even crossed my mind to use it.

No, you seem to understand this well.

You would need separate master pages for a two-split, another for a three-split–or two master pages if another of your three-splits was unevenly as opposed to evenly divided. But ultimately creating these as master pages gives you more flexibility down the road than trying to customize individual pages through overrides.

Hi Martin,

You don’t necessarily have to have a master page variation for each option - you can resize the frames in that “split halfway” MP locally on a page as required, but then those pages would be overridden and you would probably need to move the flow heading frames manually too to get them in the right place as they don’t quite follow exactly. The “split halfway” MP just provides a base that’s a bit closer to what you want. Or, you can have a master page for each different proportion - it’s up to you.

You can also just draw in frames, but no at the moment they can’t show flow headings - only frames from master pages can show flow headings. This has prompted a chat within the team though and we’ve already discussed some possible solutions/improvements that would make it easier to produce this sort of project :slight_smile: