# Force a quarter note within tuplet

I can’t make the circled tied eighth notes into a quarter note with Force Duration as I could with the regular eighth notes in the middle of the second measure. The same thing happens if the sextuplet is written as a series of eighth note triplets.

Force Duration should work the same in tuplets as anywhere else. If a note is starting as a tie chain though, you first need to reduce/change its duration so it’s notated using a single note.

1. Select the tied eighths
2. Press 5 to turn it into a single eighth
3. Press O to force duration
4. Press 6 to lengthen to a quarter note
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Thank you @Lillie_Harris. That worked. I didn’t know about the tie chain.

Actually when I changed the tied pair to a quarter note using your instructions, it changed all the other quarter notes around it to tied eighths! And then I had to apply the same operation to those as well. But I discovered that apparently in a case like this Force duration needs to be on for the entire series of notes. I had input the first two quarter notes with Force Duration off, then tried to turn it on for the third, and this produced a tied pair of eighth notes.

This might explain why I am still having trouble with the eighth-note triplet version of this passage. But my inexperience with tuplet input is probably to blame, so I will save that for another post, if necessary. Perhaps these things are easier with the triplet popover, which is as yet unknown territory.

I am now more conversant with triplet inout in general. But I still can’t make the encircled notes into a quarter note either by 1) inputting quarter notes as I go by means of the keyboard with Force Duration on or 2) going back and applying the method you showed above.

I even tried a 1/1. meter to see if that would do it. No such luck.

This is an eighth note on the last subdivision of a tuplet linking to another tuplet, so it won’t work. The solution should be to make your second beat an eighth note (remove the tuplet signpost from 2nd and 3 beats), start tuplet command, and input “6:4”. Then input your quavers with forced duration.

Like this @Sergei_Mozart?

That works, but how to show all four triplets? And why does Force Duration not work as expected in this situation?

Currently those are 2 triplets and a sextuplet. To show them I think you have to select both signposts, open the properties panel (there’s an up arrow near the marquee and hand tool), you should see which elements are active by now. “Number” and “Brackets”, disable them, and the tuplets should show.
The reason it didn’t work previously was because both figures belong to different tuplets, as in , they’re from different groups.

However, here the figures belong to the tuplet that begin on the upbeat of the 4th beat. Cool stuff that one can do.

John, how do you want to “show all 4 triplets”? In your initial example (and subsequently) the triplet symbols are hidden.

You’re right, @Derrek , I didn’t think this through. In the original passage there is an eighth note counter melody on the same staff against the quarter note sextuplet that shows the groupings. So it is really not necessary to show anything in the upper part which is just holding pairs of eighth tuplet notes through as quarter notes.

But I was exploring Dorico’s tuplet tool to see if the sextuplet could also be input as a series of triplets. But this has no practical value since as you and @Sergei_Mozart point out, the triplets can’t clearly be shown with brackets or even numbers. So the rhythm can really only be shown as a sextuplet, or a series of undefined quarter notes.

This is also not possible in Finale. I tried it, thought I had done it, but not really.