I find that Dorico always wants to attach hairpins with and without immediate dynamics to the next bar, or immediately after the current barline:
However, I’ve observed this creates a few problems:
When copying entire bars and staves to elsewhere in your score, it will presumably select everything under that bar: notes, slurs, all dynamics and other markings. Yet I’ve discovered, in fact, unless you select the next bar too, when you paste from the clipboard it will actually truncate the dynamic after the hairpin (because Dorico sees it as part of the next bar). This makes automatic selection quite a bit more tedious and not terribly intuitive (if I’m copying music which has a marking like p < f I think it is reasonable in most cases to assume I want the entire marking and not only the first half; but if the bar which follows that marking has more notes, maybe I don’t wish to select all that!)
If I wish to extend, cut, move the music, or add more bars or a new meter, because Dorico views the hairpin or final dynamic after that bar line, everything will come with. So if I were to multiple bars to the above example right after the bar in question, I’ll get something wacky like this:
But this appears to do nothing, I’m assuming because it’s more of an engraving thing. Visually my issue isn’t that they are crossing the barline because they are not from an engraving perspective. It’s that the invisible orange attachment line is connected past the barline which I am loooking to fix.
Yeah I guess I’m not looking for another workaround so much as trying to figure if this is a preference in one of the menus somewhere, or a bug… is it just me who experiences this? I find it to disrupt my workflow quite frequently…
It’s not a bug. The immediate dynamic at the end of the hairpin really is located at the start of the following bar, and if there were a note at the start of that bar, the dynamic would appear on the other side of the barline, positioned under the note. But because there’s no note there, it is conventional for the dynamic to be drawn to the left of the barline, since it is better to have the final dynamic at the end of the cresc. or dim. positioned where the note is still sounding, not where nothing is sounding.
However, it does create some awkwardness when copying and pasting that passage. It’s a difficult one to solve in generality because Dorico will only copy that which is selected, so it’s doing “the right thing” to exclude that dynamic if you have selected a range of music that is bounded by the note(s) that end at that barline, rather than going into the following bar.
I see. I create a lot of swells in my music so I typically see the complete hairpin as part of the bar where it originates (not as being attached to the following bar), and I often write with dynamics as I go and change my mind too.
I know your plate is constantly full but it would be nice in a future update to have an option in the preferences to not attach dynamics to the following bar by default (at creation), or maybe if I group dynamics together they will connect from the start of that group (the beginning of the gradual dynamic) and therefore would come together when doing a copy/paste function, regardless of the orange attachment line. And then if I don’t want to bring them with, I would remove them from the group. Thanks!
I agree here on the original point 2 in particular. I do find it frustrating to have to remember to manually tuck in hairpins and the situation where you simply add new bars to the score and see any hairpins in the final bar being suddenly extended over the newly created ones is frustrating. I thought that the point of the Engraving option “hairpins at beginning of note at start of bar” set to “do not cross barline” was supposed to stop this sort of behaviour but it’s never worked for me unless there’s something I’ve missed here. Some option such as @wing is suggesting would be welcomed by a few of us, I suspect.
The engraving option is graphical only. The ‘meaning’ of the hairpin (to which the setting applies) is all the way to the downbeat either way. When you really want the end dynamic at the end of a bar for copying purposes, I don’t think there’s a better way than attaching it to the last half beat or so, as the OP mentioned. Dorico is trying to be helpful with this case, where a cresc. / dim. goes all the way to a certain level with a rest on the downbeat.
yes, the problem with the engraving option being graphical only means there isn’t an alternative to disable the behaviour it seems. I think I can understand the logic behind Dorico’s thinking but I don’t particularly like it in this specific case which is why an alternative would be welcomed. It’s not hard to trim the hairpin but in practice, it’s very easy to forget to do so in my experience and undoing the resulting mess just takes a bit of unnecessary time.
