[FR]: Ability To Notate by Using Acoustic & Electric Instruments and Vocal

Hello dear team behind Dorico,
Would be really great if Dorico is able to receive and transcribe (monophonic and polyphonic - for harmony) audio signal.
Please, check the following video about such function in Forte notation app:

Such function will be very useful during improvisation process, and also for people who are not piano players.

I hope you would think about such improvement in Dorico! :slight_smile:

Best wishes,
Thurisaz :slight_smile:

Has Cubase (with much more emphasis on audio) done this yet?

Has Cubase (with much more emphasis on audio) done this yet?

Actually there is no DAW which did this. Cubase allows you to export MIDI out monophonic audio file through VariAudio.
Studio One went a bit further, it allows exporting of MIDI out of polyphonic audio, but thank to the close integration with Melodyne.
So, currently, I think Forte is the only product which is able to transcribe audio into notation.
NoteFlight allows recording of audio over staff, which is also great thing, but due to future integration with Cubase we don’t actually
need such function in Dorico.

Greetings :slight_smile:

This used to be possible in Finale – “MicNotator” was removed in 2014.5. I remember trying to sing notes in. :laughing:

If you’re playing a Recorder, then that’s one thing, but anything with a more complex waveform or vibrato, and it will be all over the place. Certainly, for singing, if you’re not using an an entirely clean tone with flawless attack on the note, then it’s not going to work well. To say nothing of intonation.

Of course, Forte may have entirely new, advanced algorithms that can handle all that. (The number of notation apps in development is surprisingly large.) I note that they’re the same company that makes ScanScore.

TBH, I think that such a feature would take up a huge amount of the dev team’s time, to the exclusion of anything else: they would be better off waiting for some other group in Steinberg to do it, or license it from elsewhere.

If at some point a completely reliable, fast, inexpensive and easy to integrate solution for automatic transcription of monophonic audio into clean MIDI data falls into our lap – unlikely, but certainly not impossible – then we would certainly consider implementing such a thing into Dorico. My expectation is that this will not happen soon, however.

Melodyne is really the gold standard for figuring this type of thing out. The Pro version can do full polyphonic recognition, but you’ll pay through the nose for the privilege. StudioOne allows you to import a track, analyze it with melodyne and edit it. Once Melodyne analyzes the passage, it overlays the midi data onto the track, so I can definitively say that this technology exists elsewhere from Forte 7. As Daniel said though, it’s doubtful it will come cheap anywhere.

Hello Daniel,
Thank you for the reply! :slight_smile: I hope one day we’ll have such solution.
Actually you could integrate VariAudio, which will be free solution for Dorico, since it comes from Cubase. :slight_smile:
Probably in the future versions of VariAudio the polyphonic mode will be integrated.
Also VariAudio in Dorico will need to:

  1. Work in 12-EDO and 24-EDO according to the selected scale system.
  2. To automatically export audio to MIDI and transcribe the MIDI to scores
  3. To detect more properly the pitches than in Cubase, because in there you can often hear multiple pitches
    detected as single note.

Thank you once again! :slight_smile:

Best wishes,

P.S: By the way, is there any solution to problem I had wrote about to you on P.M.? The message was read, but no answer, and I still can’t resolve it alone.

There are of course all kinds of MIDI controllers available (wind and guitar controllers are the most common). One’s not limited to keyboards.

Tristis, I know that there are various kinds of MIDI controllers… But since there is an existing, and free for Steinberg, technology which can be adopted
for the transcribing needs of Dorico, why do we need to spend money, when we can just use our acoustic, or electric instruments?!
VariAudio 3 already does the job pretty well for the needs of Cubase Pro, just needs integration of polyphonic editing.

Best regards,

Why is it “free for Steinberg?” If somebody at Forte has developed it, and it is useful (which is far from obvious, given that trivial video) they will want to be paid if Steinberg use it!

If Forte does everything you want, stop wasting your time using Dorico, and use Forte instead. I expect most Dorico users are a lot more demanding about what they want, though. (I could enter the notes with a computer keyboard ten times faster than that little demo, for example).

Rob, please, if you don’t have something meaningful to say, just don’t write! :wink:
Probably you also have problems with understanding posts, etc?!

VariAudio is proprietary of Steinberg and it’s part of Cubase and Nuendo. Just with some additional work it could be integrated in Dorico.
VariAudio in Cubase / Nuendo works only in offline mode, integrated in Dorico it should work in real-time mode.
So, obviously you are not enough familiar with the products of Steinberg…
Now, knowing the facts mentioned above, would you tell me why Steinberg should pay to Forte?!

Dorico is pretty awesome piece of software, but this doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be even far much better and comfortable.
I can enter the notes with the PC keyboard, too, but very often the real instrument itself and it’s sound could give you another perspective more inspiration during the process of composing and arranging.
But how to explain such fundamental things to a close minded guy like you?! Not possible :smiley:

…and Rob…

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Compared to me

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Seems you are the one wasting his time writing useless comments… :wink:

Best wishes! :slight_smile:

Spending money (to get pitch to MIDI hardware) would get you real-time input.

You’re suggesting that one could record an audio signal and then have VariAudio analyze it within Dorico for representation in staff notation. I can see the value in that. There’d be some delay before the notes could appear on the staff but the performance itself (the playing or singing) would be in real time. Analysis of polyphonic music would obviously take longer but there’d be no difference in the process. Melodyne used to have very basic staff notation and it was a shame Celemony removed it from Melodyne 4 at the beginning of 2016 rather than developing it a bit.

Would this be used though? I rarely use MIDI recording for note entry in Dorico and if I really wanted to record an improvisation, I’d probably do it elsewhere. There are also lots of other aspects of Dorico that I’d prefer to see developed first.

Thuriasz, I think Rob was under the honest misapprehension that VariAudio was the name of the feature in Forte, rather than the feature in Cubase. Please let’s not resort to name-calling, or impugning the mental faculties of other posters. We can agree to disagree on the usefulness or otherwise of potential features to be added to the software, but let’s try to be civil about it. Finishing your post with “Best wishes” followed by a smiley doesn’t make it any less hostile.

Rob, perhaps you could also rein it in a bit. I know Thuriasz talks more about the features of other software he admires and wants to see in Dorico more than he talks about Dorico itself, but we should try to take those posts in the spirit in which I believe they’re intended, namely that he wants those features to make Dorico more useful and comfortable for his own use. That’s not unreasonable.

Please let’s all try to get along. I’ll leave this thread unlocked for now, but if there are any further negative exchanges I’ll lock it.

Correct, I’m don’t have Cubase.

Daniel hello,
Yes, I totally agree with you about the polite behavior here! :slight_smile:
You are getting my point very correctly. I really would like to help the development of Dorico, by giving examples from existing products.
Rob always tried to attack almost every post of mine, where another software is mentioned, especially if it’s Overture… by leaving meaningless
comments without any understanding of the topic. Just to say something.
If he doesn’t know what VariAudio is (actually I mentioned in my post that it’s part of Cubase), well Google knows…
If he starts to behave normally towards me, I won’t bite him in such sarcastic way. :slight_smile: But this depends on him.
It’s not shameful if don’t know something, so he could ask politely and I will explain the things in details.

Best wishes,