[FR] Keep 2 Track 'stagger' of songs when re-sorting order

An annoyance; I know its been like it forever… :wink:

Current ‘less than elegant’ behaviour seen in Justin Perkins recent Google hangout, at 3:03:48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yH8-ZFSfFk

Look at how ‘tricky/clumsy’ it gets as he tries to re-establish the ‘stagger’ after making a move - he quickly gives up; because its tedious/boring, manually re-setting each song, working down the timeline one-by-one…

I’ve actively chosen my Montage to be laid out as a 2-Track ‘stagger’ format, from the start. So it would be great if WL were ‘intelligent’ to know I want to keep working in this format when re-sorting the order (drag/drop in the browser list).

Is there any such underlying mechanism in WL to tap into already…? (e.g. - it ‘knows’ how to place one song after the other on separate tracks when importing from a blank start…)


Cheers for listening,
Bob

PS:- a ton of other great stuff from JustinP in that vid too…! :slight_smile:

Right. I’ve often wished for an auto re-stagger option but it’s not as high on my wish list as other things.

Good remark

Understood. :wink:

Arguably, WL Pro is too much for my needs already, though I continue to support the program…

For me this just needs to be scheduled in and targeted for a release PG; otherwise, it will never be tackled. It would continually be pushed down the list of priorities, below the ‘Pro’s’ demands.

Part-timers like me have needs and wishes too. :slight_smile:

Bob

After reviewing Justins excellent video for most of this weekend - I do agree. This is very lame in that WL has no clue what the layout was and just defaults to a mess.

I see this as a higher priority fix - especially if changing the order is something you do a lot.

VP

I try to be pretty diligent about getting the correct song order up front but sometimes the song order can change for sure.

I think a “Re-Stagger” clips could be good but also, there should be some consideration for when a song is already split into more than one clip because I think you’d want that to remain on the same track.

So maybe an option to Re-Stagger Clips except adjoining or overlapping clips already on the same track.

But re-stagger becomes a problem is there is some track plugins…

That’s true. I think this would be common sense for the user to be aware of. Or maybe it’s just because I don’t ever use track plugins. Clip Plugins and Montage Output plugins are where it’s at.

True dat.

I would think the ability to “Smart Restagger” would far outweigh the need to rework track Plugins.

After watching Justin’s video - not really sure why anyone would even use Track Plugins.

For a single track with everything piled in - track effects sort of make sense - but staggered tracks logically lean toward Clip plugins straight away.

I would go as far as saying that Track Plugins should not even be a option on any staggered layout. It makes no sense to me that someone would want a plugin on alternating songs (Clips) 1, 3, 5 , 7 etc and something different for 2, 4, 6 etc. That does not seem logical in a real world situation.

Just my two cents…

VP

Yes, in fact if Track FX disappeared tomorrow, I’d care exactly 0%.

What I would really love to see is a way for in special cases to allow a track to bypass the Montage Output FX but still be part of the rendering of course but that’s for a special case and getting off topic.

Nice to see some more input…

Track plugins…? Never use them… As Justin said, Clip plugins and Montage Output plugins are where its at… :slight_smile:

Well, let me enlighten you. There is more in the world than music/album production.

I’ve been producing for radio off and on, and in that world track plugins are a god send. I have for instance some mono talk tracks, some jingle tracks and some music tracks, maybe a sound fx track. Track effects are perfect here as you can imagine and very very time effective. If source files are good I just add whatever is needed for the type of track and maybe here and there a clip effect where something special is needed.

So track effects are very important for this type of production - on the other hand, re-sorting staggered clips is very unnecessary…

You must have me mistaken for someone who does music/album production. I work radio/voiceover not just off and on but exclusively and after doing it for 20 odd years - when it takes about a millisecond to copy an FX chain to every clip in a montage - allowing me to adjust any clip exclusive of any others OR the same as any others if I choose - what’s the point/purpose of Track FX again?

And - your example (mono talk tracks, jingle track, music tracks and SFX track) - sounds more like a multitrack 4 or 5 or 6 or 10 track production.

To be clear - no one is suggesting removing TRACK FX for that - and I do not believe anyone here is even thinking about more than 2 tracks here - we are talking specifically about considering an “auto-arrange” for the existing two track “staggered” montage choice only.

Just because you never have had to re-sort a two-track staggered layout - does not make it un-necessary. It’s a gigantic PITA to be honest.

Let’s all relax a bit. It will be up to PG to both consider the feature and/or deal with it.

VP

My best idea would be an option “auto-re-stagger”, that would be disabled if any plugin is used in a track.

1 Like

Bingo.! We have a winner… :slight_smile: :smiley:

Yes - ‘Auto Re-Stagger’ when re-ordering clips; and maybe show a ‘Disable stagger.? Cancel/Continue’ pop-up, when adding a plugin to a track is subsequently attempted…? or somesuch…? I know you’ll work it out…!

(Keep the ability to drag clips (force them) to the same track if desired though…)

Thanks PG if you can do this…

Bob

I was reacting to your example of ‘songs’ staggered on two tracks and your statement about logic in the real world. BTW, I use staggered songs quite a bit - and indeed don’t use track effects there. Re-staggering might be interesting in this case, but I never had the need.

I think Philippe’s suggestion sounds like a good idea, maybe with the choice to stop or continue if plugins are involved.

Agreed.

Yes - allow “auto-stagger” right up to the point that one actually decides to add a track effect. As soon as that happens - a dialog should appear indicating that “auto-stagger” will no longer be available once you add your first effect.

This serves two purposes - the first will force the user to eventually “lock-in” their sort order before they start really getting into it and the other more important item is for us that do not use track effects - it keeps “auto-stagger” available all the time.

VP

Ha.! Thanks, glad I thought of it… :wink:
https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=983930#p983930

Seeing this again over the weekend… people do (will always) love changing their minds about song order… and funny how its usually right after spending a deal of effort, settling an existing order with all levels, clip FX, fades/crossfades etc, just so…

No complaints; just how it is. :sunglasses:

Anyway, prompted me to wonder - maybe something coming for the ‘stagger’ in WL 11…? Would be nice.

A bump for PG’s ‘solution’ mentioned above, is included in v11 - hoping this hasn’t lost out (there’s still time, yes…?)… :pray: :muscle: