[FR]: Tempo From MIDI Event/Region

Dorico team hello,
I hope you are all doing well! :slight_smile:
I would like to suggest some nice option that I’d seen in Logic Pro - Tempo from Region. Such option would be really useful in Dorico
in order to humanize the tempo in a conductor’s way.
Please, take a look at this video by Spitfire Audio:
https://youtu.be/77veY5tuGuM?t=178
It won’t take more than 5 mins of your time to check it. :slight_smile:
Personally I find this option very useful and important, and really hope that you would think about to include something similar in the next major version! :slight_smile:
Such function would be very helpful for the film scoring in Dorico, too.

Thank you in advance! :slight_smile:

Best regards,
Thurisaz

1 Like

This sort of “tap tempo” feature has been requested before (at least something similar), and I agree… it would be incredibly useful to have a way to humanize the tempo.

It’s true that it’s easy enough to manipulate the tempo currently in Dorico, but it’s a bit backward… you have to draw in the tempo visually, then listen to confirm it’s what you wanted. It usually takes me quite a few passes to make the graph match what’s in my ear. By contrast, a “tap tempo” function begins with sound, then creates the graphical representation of the tempo changes after the fact. Much easier to create fine-grain tempo changes that let the music breathe.

It’s easy enough to do in Dorico, here’s a great video showing it in action with VSL and Ravel

Pavane Pour Une Infante Defunte - VSL for Dorico Screencast

This approach is rather like a conductor marking up their score in prep for a concert. Another approach is export the project to Cubase (or Logic) and do it there. That’s what I do, and all I need is better Cubase integration. You can see it with all the Gradual Tempo flags, and they do closeups. Good rendering. Could be more lush I think, at least that’s how I heard it in live and recorded.

Personally though I think beat mapping is a dumb feature I wouldn’t want to see in Dorico. Logic has it in there for the EDM and pop music, which is nothing but a jackhammer beat. I’d hate to have to record through a piece banging the piano to set a tempo. Using the lanes is much more precise, faster and easier IMHO - like I say much how I would notate my rubato as a conductor. Dan - FWIW I don’t see it as backwards. My ‘hats’ in Dorico are composer and conductor, which is an abstracted view. As a conductor I go in and twiddle the performance to my liking.

PS You probably could do it this way by importing a tempo track. Go over to Logic, hit your keyboard and do the beat mapping stuff, then export it as a tempo track to Dorico. Never done this but might work.

Hi Dan,
Yes editing the tempo by pencil is important feature, but as you said, it needs many tweaks until it fits what you hear and feel inside.
Would be nice if we can “tap” the tempo through the whole piece as we feel it. :slight_smile:

RedtideMusic hello,
Well, personally I don’t want to go out of Dorico in order to create the desired tempo mapping/tapping and then to import it back.
Editing the tempo by the pencil killing the feeling flow. The CC Automation Lanes aren’t connected to the tempo, they control other aspects of the playback.
The humanization of the tempo isn’t thing for EDM, or pop music, actually these genres sound pretty much to the grid, without much humanization.
This feature is more important for classical, film, band and other acoustic based music.
If you don’t find the existence of such feature useful in Dorico, it’s your right, and you are not forced to use it. But as you can see I’m not the only one who thinks that this would be very helpful.
Would be nice if Dorico becomes more and more powerful composing tool, so features that will make the playback more realistic and live, in an easy way, are important. Especially since there is no way for real-time synchronization between Dorico and Cubase to work as one system.
The MIDI Quantize panel from Cubase should also be integrated into Dorico, because it’s very powerful and helps the humanization of the MIDI notes and their positioning…

Best wishes colleagues,
Thurisaz

Sure, you want the feature, I’m offering a differing opinion on it, so no need for a discussion that we all have different wishes. And besides Steinbergs approach is to have an integrated suite. Dorico will always have some basic rendering and MIDI editing (according to Daniel), but the plan is that for heavy lifting - such as the feature you describe - will be unlikely to be seen in Dorico I expect, instead you’ll have to do that in a DAW. I personally applaud that approach, so as to keep Dorico from becoming a kitchen sink. But yes you’d like it to have this so don’t need to iterate the point :smiley:, I’m simply pointing out that not everybody wants it and that regardless Steinberg has a product line approach to this so will likely have more limitations in MIDI editing than a DAW*

*reason I like the product line approach is that traditional DAW’s - Logic, Cubase, etc - have become far too bloated in my view. When I’m in Dorico I want to concentrate on the score, and have some minimal MIDI editing capabilities. Just IMHO -

Yes, I completely understand your position. :slight_smile: But by the time Dorico became more comfortable platform for composing, arranging and orchestrating music than Cubase. After the Cubase <-> Dorico integration Survey posted by Steinberg, I was expecting some major steps towards this in Cubase 11. Unfortunately the only integration was the SMuFL fonts, and nothing more…
In order Cubase to be able to work in complete integration with Dorico, many things in Cubase must be changed and improved e.g:
Multiple Voices per Instrument Track, the Expression Maps, adding of Flows in Cubase and many other…
So, now I prefer to do all my virtual instrument arrangements and orchestrations inside Dorico, to make them sound properly and then export them as Audio and import everything into Cubase, for additional audio recordings, mix and master. :slight_smile:
The Score Editor in Cubase is pretty terrible and outdated, even with the improvements in version 11. Compared to Dorico, it is completely useless…

Best regards,
Thurisaz

Respectfully, I couldn’t possibly disagree more. Playing a scratch track on the piano (or using a two tempo) is precisely how I prefer to do it, and it’s far superior in terms of naturalness.

Again, the tempo changes are captured as a result of the sound, not drawn in, listened to, tweaked, listened again, etc. The performance is the one “calling the shots,” not the drawn-in curves.

I’ve said my piece. I know others might have a different workflow. I just look forward to the possibility of this being added someday.

At present I do indeed map it in a DAW and import. Extra step.

No worries gents, to each his own. I spent a number of years as a conductor so am happy pretending to be one, pushing my VI’s around instead of my players :smiley: