We really need proper tempo and time signature tracks please! I am importing audio that has natural tempo changes (though mapped and ramped in the DAW) so when imported the bar numbers are not going to align properly.
Having to export a click track but I have to use a workaround to get back to start of a bar for next song. I need a fluid environment with proper timeline.
Please!
… it sounds that you have a Cubase project which you are exporting and then importing to VST Live? The Tempo and Signature tracks are wrong? Can you give me the cpr file, please? I just need the cpr file.
/Michael.
Hi Michael - thanks for your reply. At this time I’m simply experimenting to see what is possible. There’s no file from Cubase. Currently the audio files have been created in Studio One, with gradual tempo changes in some places. As far as I see from previous comments about VSTL, mapping the tempo is not possible. I can of course change tempo per “song”, but not within a song, nor gradually. Reading your response to my other question it looks as if VSTL is not going to be the right app for me. I need it to behave more like a DAW from a timeline point of view. Perhaps there isn’t an app specifically for live which will do what I want, so I’ll probably use Nuendo. I’m moving all my pre-production over to Nuendo, but the project is still in S1 for the moment.
Though it looks like the end off the road for my VSTL experience, I would like to offer this suggestion: Not everyone performing live shows is working on a “song” basis. Think about classical music, opera, musical theatre, experimental theatre, sonic installations… Continuous sections with multiple changes in tempo, signature, instrumentation etc. This is the area I’m working in, and so far I haven’t found the answer in MainStage, Studio One Show, or GigPerformer.
My suggestion (and I think you’d be a market leader if followed!) is to create an app that is not restricted by this simple “song” block methodology. Give us a real timeline please and I’ll be back, as the man said.
VSTLive now can import DAWproject file, that means you can prepare things via your SudioOne then import it to VSTLive 
DAWproject file has met with problems in my setup. I tried it and it was full of timing and placement errors (I posted about this somewhere on here!). Anyway I really don’t need more than the audio - I can stem out to VSTL or whatever. I’ll not be using any VST instruments, or FX on the audio. Simply audio, video, live instrument & vocal inputs , and DMX lighting. So what comes out of the DAW into VSTL or whatever I end up using is just the audio (different versions with surround where possible).
Surround is possible if you bounce the material so… and route them to output to 5, 6, etc… interface channels…
Yes, I meant that I’d have different versions ready to roll in VSTL / Nuendo etc for this. I’m thinking that the one continuous song might work with VSTL. I need to spend some time putting a dummy project together to see if it’s practical. I’d like to keep everything in one appt rather than sync with another one for video or whatever. Hence the attraction of VBSTL! But I really do think they need to think more out of the box about not being constrained by “song” blocks - and I’m a “song” writer for sure! But this project is something else entirely and I’d love to have VSTL features with a DAW approach to the temporal aspects.
A Song in VST Live is like an entire DAW project in other apps.
Open the Tracks view and you can create and edit tempo and time signature tracks, import or drag your audio files etc.
The “restriction” is merely a structural concept. You can put everything in one Song and there are no restrictions, simply use it like you are used to with other DAWs. As suggested elsewhere, you may use Parts to further structure your work, all in one Song if you don’t want or cannot structure using Songs.
Above all that, if you can structure with Songs, use Song Actions to auto-start the next Song etc. Also there is a “Song Track” which shows Parts, there is your overview.
*The “restriction” is merely a structural concept"
Well, several restrictions if using only one song with parts:
As I’m using varying tempos in my sections, and would import click tracks accordingly, these would not match the timeline in any way.
Cannot change signature or tempo in parts.
All that aside yes, using just one song may do the job. But not as well as having the songs displayed along the timeline, with all the advantages of song structure, tempo etc. But enough already ! I’ll work around it for now and see if I can reach a working solution.
EDIT added - just had the fun of adding a click track to a timeline with a different tempo. So that means careful exporting of click tracks with start times to match master audio. OK, not a deal breaker, but another restriction in not being able to use song structure.
Click to counter toggle between bars/time/TC counting
Yes I found it in the end!
Hi, I’m struggling with this as well. Besides the fact that I’ve now fully immersed myself in Cubase, I still think the time mapping in Studio One and Ableton Live are the two best DAWs when it comes to time mapping. I feel that Cubase still has some catching up to do in this area, and I’ve already pointed this out in the past through a tutorial video.
Is it possible to toggle TC(timecode) at different fps? Right now I’m only seeing Bar/Time display.
Yes. It’s in / song based (see SONG menu, …part triggers)
Tempo and Time Signature are controlled by Tempo and Time Signature Tracks. Click add track and choose.
fkalmus already answered that.
Just a bit surprised that given you are familiar with DAWs in general, you didn’t figure that out, and Tempo and Time Signature tracks too - just curious, so maybe we can better help other users in a similar situation to find it…but it’s pretty standard, or?
Just a bit surprised that given you are familiar with DAWs in general, you didn’t figure that out, and Tempo and Time Signature tracks too
I figured out the clock v. beats yes, not in the timeline info but a small icon bottom left, not easy to spot.
As to about tracks - see my comment re song parts cannot contain tempo or time sig info. There’s a lot about this app that is not at all similar to DAWs - it’s more similar to some kind of block based/clip launcher type of app maybe - Ableton and the like, which I am entirely unfamiliar with. I’m a timeline guy not a clip/loop guy!
Parts have two faces. Foremost, they are Song entities which automate and manage Layers (Instruments and MIDI processing), Stacks (audio processors), Modules, and other Part related functions.
As a second task, you can (!) assign time triggers to Parts. This selects the Part when timeline has reached its trigger time; selecting a Part means to activate all of its assets as described above.
With FlexLoops (and only when engaged), you can also freely jump around the Song timeline and/or program loops etc. within a defined quantize snap. This is somewhat similar to a “realtime Arranger Track”, and while also similar to other apps you mention, does that for all timeline tracks and media of a conventional timeline.
To summerize: you can use just one Song, and if you so wish, ignore Parts altogether. Or use Parts to structure the Song, and/or use Part properties to control various aspects of the show. It all just depends on what you want to achieve.
Thanks for this info - yes the main issue for me using a Song only structure is that I’m often working with varying tempi - not just different tempi for different sections but with ral and accels - so whilst I can bounce click tracks to tempo from the DAW and import along with the backing tracks, I can’t then use the visual metronome in VSTL, which would actually be very useful. I have no need of loops or VST instruments, it’s simply audio tracks and live inputs with DMX and video.
I did another experiment yesterday with 2 audio tracks crossfading, and 2 video tracks - and whilst this works with a one “song” timeline approach, and I can see how I could put the whole show together in this way, it’d be far better if I could use the tempo functions in VSTL, when needed. For example, as I’m not using bars and beats, if I place one set of tracks, video, effects etc in place along my timeline, should I find that I need to increase or decrease the crossfades between sections, or increase a space for example, this is a lot more complex than if I were able too use the grid and snap to a bar - at the correct tempo.
I hope this makes sense! I’m still working at how I can use VSTL - and I’m hoping that there are some developments on the horizon that will cater for people like me who aren’t doing a traditional song by song type of show. Musical theatre, classical music, contemporary music, sonic installations - these are all far less likely to want to be bound by bar/beat structure and will more often have elements that cross from one section to another. Currently the only way to do this is a “one song” approach - but then we’re back to the limit of one tempo, one time signature. I know maybe I’m asking a lot! But the DAW timeline approach, where one can change time sig and tempo at will, would make this task so much easier. Where I want to be bound to a tempo and sig I can do so, where there are sections “floating” I can treat these as just time, and start the next fixed tempo section where I need it. I can of course use a DAW for this - but then I need the DMX and video and live input with switching effects etc…
The simplest way to understand what I’m trying to achieve is to imagine you were using VSTL for an Opera - - with videos - pre-recorded and of the performance . You wouldn’t for one moment think of breaking this down into discrete “songs” - there’s far too much going on across the timeline to be able to manage it in blocks. And you’d definitely want an overview of the entire project timeline.
I’m grateful for all the input on this, and hope that it’s helpful to others. I guess I’m a little surprised that there’s not already an app that more closely resembles a DAW but for live performance. Studio One’s Show page is not bad - it works on a timeline with the “songs” in sequence and easy to set tempo etc. but it has no DMX lighting - a huge omission that users have been asking for since its inception.
No, we are not. You can create a Tempo track with varying tempo. Did you try that? Same for time signature.
I don’t see how to create a tempo track with varying sig and tempo in one song - I must have missed this - how please?