I wonder, what if Steinberg adopted the Blackmagic model?
Base software includes all functionality of interest to non “industry” users and is free or one time payment cheap
“Industry” version has a moderate cost
But, really, the software exists to sell hardware
To me as a serious hobbyist/semi-pro it’s ridiculous that features like modulators require Pro. Why would any version of Cubase ship without modulators? Why would any version of Cubase ship without the drum machine? It makes no sense at all. “Oh, the white keys are Artist, the black keys work if you have Pro.”
The “industry” version (Nuendo basically) would support industry (esp. post-production) features that individual artists and producers don’t really care about or don’t need at all.
Maybe Yamaha could spend some time integrating hardware with Cubase. Think of Access Virus as one example – tightly integrated outboard sound and effects (and optionally keyboard controller). Think of desktop control surfaces that integrate with the faders and effects … like … certain other products.
The fact that the full version of HALion isn’t included in Pro is also mind-boggling. Surely the world could use more FlexPhraser magic? Maddening!
I’m a Pro user not because I’m a pro, but because the current scheme of market segmentation is anti-creative, and looking at the different versions, what occurs to any rational person is “why would you buy this software without that?” regarding the features that are directed specifically at creatives. I don’t begrudge the money I’ve spent, but, I believe that other software is a better value these days. I happen to prefer the Cubase way of things to other options, but if I didn’t, I’d probably be using something else.
It won’t be long before much less expensive or less segmented software makes the current Cubase scheme nonviable. I’d hope to see Steinberg make the move proactively rather than being dragged along.
I love Resolve, but they are in the hardware & not software business. While Steinberg has made several forays into hardware, none have ever been all that compelling in the marketplace.
The business models between the two are not readily comparable.
If you think that restriction is ridiculous (which I agree, considering the price/feature software Cubase is trying to compete with [Bitwig, FL Studio and Live]), you can only adjust the vertical spacing between staves in Dorico Pro. You know how many other scoring software locks such a basic layout feature in the top tier version? None.
Except Yamaha already does that. Montage has a plugin version and editor that’s meant to integrate with Cubase. Then you have the opposite problem with Yamaha. Yamaha is a hardware company. They happen to own Steinberg, but Steinberg is pretty much a separate company.
In theory that could help Cubase secure more Pro licenses that way but…Steinberg is not Native Instruments. And even Native Instruments doesn’t give you the full version of Kontakt when you buy a library, even if it’s their library.
Depending on how much you look at the price/features, said software already exists.
How many HALion licenses do you think Steinberg sells per year? 100? 10? I can’t imagine it’s worth their while to maintain it as a separate product tier. On the other hand, just a dozen busy new patch programmers and sound designers who got it “for free” could reinvigorate the product.
you can only adjust the vertical spacing between staves in Dorico Pro. You know how many other scoring software locks such a basic layout feature in the top tier version? None
Mercifully, my Finale 1.0 serial number got me a cheap copy of Dorico Pro. (After 35 years!) But the Dorico integration with Cubase is not there so far, so there is that, too.
If it wasn’t “worth their while”, don’t you think they would stop doing it? I don’t need to use my imagination to figure things like that out. You seem to be living in some sort of dream world.
Without access to exact sales figures or estimate figures, we can’t make that assumption. Is the full version of Halion worth anything if all you’re doing is playing presets? I don’t think so. And the same holds true for Kontakt and Sampletank.
I know it’s not your point, but it’s entirely possible in future these will ‘trickle-down’ into other editions. It’s happened before with ‘Pro-only’ features.
It appears your initial post can be summarised as “Give me the Steinberg products and features I want for less money”. Along with a warning that Steinberg will somehow lose business if they don’t adopt this practice.
Does that sound about right?
I’ve been thinking of how to reply to the OP without sounding critical, and you may have given me an “in.” One can’t help but add to your post that he’s rather well answered his own question given he purchased Pro for the feature set; though indicated he “isn’t one.” Given they made the sale based on the feature-set model, it seems to me that the answer is inherent in the question itself.
I pretty clearly stated I “am one” (someone who likes Cubase, for a variety of reasons). I also feel that the 90s-era Econ 201 tiered pricing strategy is obsolescent and doomed.
Japanese businesses are famously siloed, but I think Yamaha will have to integrate its business with Steinberg in a meaningful way, beyond making Elements/LE a pack-in, and consolidate its tiers into Newbie (free) → Creative (Pro, essentially) → Industry (Nuendo/post) at prices that are actually competitive.
If a particular DAW that has a single tier and a DIY pricing model had a UI that I could stand, I’d probably have switched a couple years ago. But I can’t stand its UI, or lack thereof. I do recommend it to people who are new to DAWs, because they don’t care (and that DAW has fantastic video tutorials). Currently I recommend Cubase to people who need good MIDI editing (even though it’s still fundamentally inferior to mid 1990s Opcode) and won’t miss a few hundred dollars.
Going back to HALion, I think not shipping the full synth with Pro is a huge mistake.
The prices are competitive when you Compare Cubase against what it’s actually competing against: ProTools. One can argue Cubase is used way more often in the European market than ProTools is. There used to be a technical reason in the past why Cubase and Nuendo were separate products, but with most of the features from Nuendo being integrated into Cubase and vice-versa, the only thing that separates Cubase from Nuendo is the game and post production features….And the price.
As long as those features are not Expression Maps. They haven’t trickled down into other editions since 2009 when they were first introduced.
More than competitive Right now I can get Protools for $259 CDN per year - and that’s during their 33% off sale. They are up front that they are an annual or monthly cost - which locks you in, unlike Cubase, where you don’t have to upgrade if you don’t want to.
Right now I can upgrade from 14 to 15 for €79.00, or about $128 CDN. And that’s a one-time charge.
As I’ve said elsewhere, I’m an amateur, so Cubase is like Excel - I use probably 10% or less of what it can do. But I find the price competitive and I’m ok being here because I was in the Yamaha ecosystem, and it meets my needs. But I’m clearly in the minority there, and I’m sure someone will suggest that I just haven’t hit a limitation or bug yet.
You’re fine.
With every paid update release there are people complaining about prices and wrong features. Many of us customers are artist and if artists are not allowed to get emotional - who does?
I assume Steinberg will collect the feedback, compare it against the sales and then think about whether they have to adjust their long term strategy.
That would make no sense. Pro users should just get it. The vast majority won’t use the full editor and would never have paid for it, so, no money lost there. A handful of users who would never have dropped $250 on such an esoteric item will see it, mess around, and use it to do cool things. Ideally, Steinberg would feed their cool things back into future releases.
There might be people that buy HALion separately as a standalone instrument or for other DAWs. They can keep on paying retail for it.
The lack of ability to create and edit new HALion FlexPhrases in Cubase Pro out of the box is just … bewildering. Why would anyone hamstring a creative software product like that? It’s so completely gratuitous and counterproductive. This is a tool that has just been sitting around, forever, doing 1% of what it could be doing just because it is stupidly expensive to access its killer feature.
That does make sense and your answer justifies it. The vast majority of users will either create their own presets using the libraries that come with Halion Sonic by blending them and things like that. Halion Sonic has all that functionality already. Considering Halion has a rather small market share compared to Kontakt, it makes no sense for Steinberg to just give it away to Pro users at no extra cost. They would be losing money.
And that would be a horrible model to pursue because people who bought just Halion would feel ripped off that Steinberg is now bundling their expensive software inside Cubase Pro. A goo example of how that doesn’t work was observed when Universal Audio released their Sound City Studios plugin for a price, then shortly after released a bundle of 34 plugins which included the Sound City Studios for the same price. People were not happy when that happened.
One can’t help but add to your post that he’s rather well answered his own question given he purchased Pro for the feature set; though indicated he “isn’t one.” Given they made the sale based on the feature-set model, it seems to me that the answer is inherent in the question itself.