Galaxy S23 Ultra Performance Issues

Cubasis
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How is that significantly different from Windows vs Mac? Windows has an unfathomable number of different hardware configurations from different manufacturers, and that’s not a problem. They all use the x86 architecture. Cubase can be installed and run on any Windows computer that meets the minimum system requirements. Different phone manufacturers likewise all use different hardware configurations, but it’s all based on the ARM architecture. Different phones often use exactly the same processor. Phone manufacturers can and do apply their own ‘skins’ to Android, but afaik there’s still a lot of standardization in stock Android. So I’ll ask again, why can’t the Android version of Cubasis simply use its own custom audio engine that works as long as the phone’s hardware is powerful enough? Why can’t the concept of “minimum system requirements” apply to mobile devices?

Actually it hasn’t. I’ve only been using my Samsung phones as examples because that’s what I own. This conversation has been focused primarily on Android products and the Android version of Cubasis, although it was initially about two specific Samsung phones.

Samsung tablets are included implicitly by talking about Android, as are all other Android phones and tablets. This is a moot point anyway because tablets and phones typically use the same hardware, and Cubasis can resize its interface for both types of devices.

That hasn’t been a problem so far, to my knowledge. Cubasis works on a plethora of different Android devices in different performance categories. I’m still failing to see why the Android version can’t have feature-parity with iOS.

Define “very few”. I think there’s more than a few software devs who do that.

Which begs the question of exactly why the Android version is purchased less. Could it be perhaps because it’s way behind on features? Of course more people will purchase the iOS version if it has a much more robust feature set!

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why we’re having this discussion.

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Back in 2011, I bought a Apple itouch 4th generation, I immediately searched the App Store for music apps, I came across MusicStudio, that was amazing, then I discovered Nanostudio 1st generation, that synth was so advanced in audio and visual quality, my LG phone had nothing like this at all, it did have music apps but they were only simple, low tech and low visual quality.
I showed my manager my iTouch and what it was capable of, the following day he brought in his first generation iPad and demonstrated Nanostudio and IK Multimedia’s Amplitube guitar app, he was also interested in music creation. The App Store was awash with awesome synth apps and utilities. My Android friends would come up to me and say “look what I can do with this particular synth app, I would then ask…can it do what the iTouch can do by way of technical ability, the subject got changed, I wonder why.
There is a big reason why iPad and iPhone is more expensive,……put it this way, if Steinberg were to create Cubasis for Android that was equal to iOS, then they would’ve done so and saved many of us paying double the app purchases price……and the extra expense for the iPad. There are many Android users that have changed to the iPad, I would love for them to read this topic and leave their comments. We all have a choice, I knew I wanted the best quality device for creating music, I knew I had to pay extra for it too, but it was/is/always will be worth it :slightly_smiling_face:

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Apple beat everyone else to market with the iPhone in 2007. They also released the first proper tablet with the iPad in 2010. They also develop their own hardware, software, and OS in-house. Combined with their reputation, this gave them a lot of momentum to get the best software (and initially hardware) first. That’s been changing lately. Some great tablet apps are now available on both iOS and Android, like Cubasis, Nomad Sculpt, and even LumaFusion (formerly iOS-exclusive, and optimized for desktop mode). All three of those apps also work on phones (Nomad Sculpt doesn’t work on iPhones because they lack stylus support, but it works on Android phones like the S23 Ultra, Moto G Stylus, Surface Duo 2, etc). Also, a number of flagship Android phones and tablets are technologically superior to the iPhone and iPad (not iPad Pro) with features like vapour chamber cooling, EMR stylus screen technology (iPad has it, but not iPhone), extra high refresh rates, way faster charging, folding phones, sometimes the chips perform as good or better (like the SD8G2 which has a faster GPU than the A17 Pro), a lot more RAM available, faster RAM, etc. They are also made with comparable quality.

The same thing often happens when iPhone users are shown Android phones which have a desktop mode, like the one in the photo I posted earlier. Just watch though. As soon as Apple rolls out their version, suddenly it will be “revolutionary!” and people will be all over it (I actually hope Apple does that, because that’s what it’s gonna take).

Yes, indeed: Apple knows people will pay for it.

Indeed, if the Android version was equal to iOS, then it would likely cost nearly the same, but not quite as much, thanks to avoiding Apple’s publishing fees. In that scenario, why would anyone want to pay more money for both the app and the iPad, only to get the same experience? Consequently, why wouldn’t anyone want the Android version to be equal? You would think Steinberg would want to cash in on both the iOS and Android markets.

Yes, because the status quo either forced them to or motivated them to.

Yes, and that’s exactly how Apple wants people to think. Except the iPad isn’t actually the best quality device in a lot of ways, mostly regarding hardware (except the iPad Pro, and you’ll definitely pay for that). Apple does in fact have the best software though. I’m trying to change that (and I realize I’m just one guy peeing on a forest fire). By the same logic, you could argue that all Windows users should switch to Mac because it’s “worth it”. Again, there’s no credible reason why Cubasis on Android can’t be equal to iOS, other than the popularity and momentum of the iPad. Many people who switched from an Android tablet to an iPad probably wouldn’t have switched if the Android software had been equal.

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Back in the MusicStudio days the ios app already had more functions then the android app…
I dont think hardware is as much as an issue as just the differences between the 2 operating systems and their infrastructures.

Pulling Samsung’s Dex mode is a bit irrelevant as it is more an Samsung feature and not an android one.
Samsung is anyways a difficult example as they mod android versions for their brand products (i have a tab s6 lite and a tab s7).

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And we will pay Apple’s prices for Apple’s excellent after sale support, including FREE classes online as well as in-store. With AppleCare+ I get 24/7 support on my Apple devices. Dealing with Apple Support is quick and easy, with or without AppleCare+. Every iPhone and iPad comes with the Apple Support app pre-installed to get you immediate help.

Here’s how I evolved from Android to Apple. Even though I sold the very first Macs, Lisas, Apple IIes, and even Commodire Amigas, I never owned an Apple device before 2019. A friend of mine bought a new MacBook Pro and offered me his 2011 17” MacBook Pro for the cost of shipping it to me. That was in 2019. I took it to the local Apple Store for help. They asked me if I had a Genius Bar appointment. No, At that time I was still on Android and didn’t even know what a Genius Bar appointment was. Apple was radically different from the Apple I knew in the 1980s. They put a new operating system on it and treated me like I was walking in with a brand new computer still under warranty, which it wasn’t, of course. And there was no AppleCare+ contract on it.

I was so impressed with the Support that after I fried that computer (my fault, I upgraded the RAM beyond Apple’s recommended max and it worked until the excess heat burned up the GPU), I bought my first iPad, expecting to miss the Mac. Was I ever in for a surprise. The iPad has far exceeded my expectations! My only disappointment was that I couldn’t text with non-Apple users. But that fixed itself when my Android phone died and I bought an iPhone. That was it. My android days ended. The iPhone, as I figured out, is the command center of Apple’s mobile world. It’s the center piece that all my other Apple devices are controlled from (HomePod Mini, AirPod Pros). Having iPhone access brought on board all non-Apple contacts and made them available to all of my Apple mobile devices. My Wifi iPad can receive and make phone calls, provided its on the same Wifi network with my iPhone and provided I give it permission in the iPhone’s Phone app!

The point of this history is to highlight WHY Apple users are charged so much and are willing to pay it. Anyone who complains about Apple support probably thinks they can’t get support because they don’t have AppleCare+, which is not entirely true. They can’t get the same level hardware support. A broken screen will cost much more to replace without AppleCare+. They can’t get a FREE battery replacement without AppleCare+, but they can pay and Apple will repair their device. While not advertised, Apple will provide software support to any Apple user. I now consider Apple the Gold Standard level of Support not matched by any company in any industry that I have dealt with.

Now, tell me, what I would have done if I was given a Samsung Android tablet and I needed in person support? There are no Samsung stores like there are Apple stores. Do you think the guys and gals at T-Mobile, AT&T, or Verizon are experts on your Samsung devices and can give you FREE battery replacements and the level of support that Apple gives?
Do they offer FREE classes like Apple Stores do?

If you buy an Apple device and never go back to Apple when you need help, well, that’s on you. Your mistake!

The other things I’ve learned about Apple are:

  1. They use top notch components in their hardware, put together with lead free solder to be non-polluting (which doesn’t stick as well as leaded solder, but they’ve figured out how to get it to stand up and last),
  2. Per 1 above, they won’t use inferior parts just to cut cost.
  3. Who started this mobile revolution? Steve Jobs and Apple iPhone

Every mobile company and device since is riding off the risks taken by Steve Jobs and Apple, but if Steve were alive, I’m sure he’d say he never considered it a risk, being so positive the iPhone would succeed and take the world by storm.

Some will say, you’re just an Apple fanboy. I guess I am, but Apple earned that from me. I wasn’t looking to be a fan, they just earned it, the old-fashioned way, through good work.

John

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I walked away from apple because of their closed software enviroment, when they hired Comex and basically killed the jailbreak scene… the Cydia store made ios so customable and open… so after ios 5 i jumped over to android.:sweat_smile:

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I get that. Choice is a good thing. If it works for you, great! :grinning:

Before Apple I was a Linux user. I erased Windows and MS Office Professional from my Dell PC and turned it into a Linux box. I was so fed up with Windows I was willing to ditch MS Office Pro which cost me about $350. Unfortunately, there wasn’t much for music on Linux back in the early 2000s. I recorded with Audacity and “played” with MuseScore sheet music app. Cubasis and Dorico for iPad are what I mainly use now.

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This is taken from August 2023 SoundOnSound publication:

Android runs on top of a Java-based runtime and the overheads of this are quite significant relative to iOS which is compiled directly to ARM code.
(there are portions of the OS written in machine code, but most application code runs on the Java runtime).
This is why Android devices tend to need larger amounts of RAM then iOS devices.
Apple’s SoC devices are also way ahead of anything available for Android, in terms of raw processing power. Apple make their own silicon; Android vendors generally go to vendors like Qualcomm at the upper tier and a whole bunch of even more mediocre second-tier chip vendors.
Samsung do fab their own silicon but the performance is still way short of what Apple can offer

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Hi DaverZ,
This conversation is long and becoming very technical, I think we are all learning something from this, (I am), but in the end I hope your request is considered by Steinberg, it would be good for us all to be happy using Cubasis with our devices :slightly_smiling_face:
Mike

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I don’t doubt it. As I said previously, Apple beat everyone else to market with the iPhone in 2007, and the rest is history.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree there. Again, I see no real reason why Cubasis on Android can’t have feature-parity with iOS. In fairness, you were partly right about how Android handles background tasks in phone mode. It “snapshots and freezes” the app, with the exception of YouTube, YouTube Music, Spotify, etc., which strongly indicates that it’s up to app developers to support background tasking, rather than a limitation of Android itself. So far, the iPhone is indeed better there.

Support for multitasking with free-form windows became standard in Android 12, not just Samsung’s One UI skin. Support for two-way split-screen became standard in Android 7. Also, I’m pretty sure DeX is built upon Android’s hidden desktop mode for developers, and it isn’t the only custom Android desktop mode. There’s Motorola ReadyFor, Huawei EMUI Desktop, Honor Magic Desktop, and LG used to have Screen+ when they were still making phones. As soon as Google starts developing stock Android’s desktop mode, then it’s game on. Apparently Android has actually supported multiple external displays since Android 10, provided that the physical device supports it (USB-C with Multi Stream Transport), but so far no devices do.

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I didn’t know all that about Apple’s customer service and support. That’s quite impressive. Therefore I recant on that point.

I get that Apple’s ecosystem works well when you’re in their ecosystem. However, a high-walled garden is not for everyone. I wouldn’t call someone an Apple fanboy if the ecosystem works for them and does everything they want/need. I also acknowledged in an earlier comment that Apple beat everyone else to market with the iPhone in 2007, and how that set the stage for them to dominate in software.

As I said earlier, flagship Android phones are made with comparable quality to the iPhone, especially Samsung flagships. They generally don’t use cheaper parts to cut costs. If anything, Apple is more guilty of that with the very lackluster cooling systems they use in the iPhone and iPad (even the iPad Pro). They insist on using cheap graphite pads and refuse to adopt anything good like a heat pipe or vapour chamber. I don’t know about the specific detail of lead-free solder, but that’s just splitting hairs if you ask me. Overall, Android phones and tablets are more technologically progressive.

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That’s not the entire picture, though. Please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but my research is as follows: All the critical system functions like the drivers for the display, graphics, audio, cameras, USB, etc. are handled by the Linux kernel, and native libraries run in parallel to the Java runtime. You can use the Android Native Development Kit to write a large portion of an app in C++ (generally all the computationally-heavy parts of the app, like the audio engine in the case of Cubasis), while only using Java/Kotlin for the lighter peripheral functions like notification management, window management, etc. The portions written in C++ will not consume any more RAM than the iOS equivalent. The C++ components also have manual control over RAM management and thereby avoid the performance penalty which would otherwise result from Android’s garbage collection. In other words, the performance-sensitive parts of the app are indeed able to run at full performance when the Android NDK is utilized properly, and the Java-based surroundings have little impact. The biggest proof of this is gaming, which has equal performance on iOS and Android, as long as the raw processing power is equal.

Not really. This is the problem with all the Apple hype. The iPhone has a significant lead in CPU power, but not huge. Real-world performance is typically about the same or a little better on the iPhone 15 Pro Max vs the S23 Ultra (except in the odd extreme case like Cubasis, almost certainly because of the audio engine). The iPad isn’t ahead because the processor is always two generations behind the iPhone. The 8 Gen 2’s GPU comfortably beats the A17 Pro. The 8 Gen 2 also has faster RAM (LPDDR5X @ 67.2GB/s vs LPDDR5 @ 51.2GB/s). Of course the 8 Gen 3 is right around the corner. Suffice it to say, Qualcomm has almost caught up to Apple, for all intents and purposes.

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:joy: It certainly has become a long and technical conversation, and it’s a learning experience for me too. Thank you, and I hope so too. Thank you to everyone for participating.

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This topic has been very informative, those who chose to read it will discover (if they never already knew) the main differences between the devices that run Cubasis. There is far more to this than I ever realised.

My history that makes me grateful for today’s technology:

I am of an age that listened to crystal sets when we were young kids (early monophonic Walkman lol) no batteries required, these had coiled copper wire wrapped around a piece of ferrite rod and picked up a few stations, we also used to make our own sets using a germanium crystal diode (cats whisker) a very long piece of wire for an areal, an earth wire and a crystal ear piece - but this type was not portable, sometimes two stations were received at the same time, but even so, that technology was amazing back then, the only chips we knew about came with fish and salt-n-vinegar lol.
Zoom forward 60+ years and we now have this futuristic device with a magic screen that we can control by touch, and it has more synthesiser’s and fx units packed into its memory than you can get in the back of a transit van!
I think we expect too much out of a device sometimes, I have written some very complex music on iPad, I have also written some very complex music using a Kawia Q80 32 track Midi Sequencer (see photo), look how big the editing window is compared to a 10.9” touchscreen, it was like trying to wallpaper a hallway through the letter box! a Boss Dr Synth Midi sound module and all played using a three keyboard rig, this was amazing back in the 80s/90s, I expect I would have been more than happy with a Android tablet compared to what I was used to.
I had the (expensive) iPad 2nd gen since 2011, there was no competition, when it was time to upgrade the iPad, it was at a time when Android tablets were on the scene, I researched and undoubtedly stayed with Apple because of the spec.

IMG_0901
IMG_09011564×1779 297 KB

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according to Apple’s 2022 supplier list, the iPhone maker is a client of three Samsung Group subsidiary companies: Samsung Electronics, Samsung Electro-Mechanics, and Samsung SDI .

Lol

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I’m glad, and thank you! :slightly_smiling_face:

Absolutely.

That’s amazing!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Love it!!

Awesome!! Gotta love that vintage equipment! My dad still has a Roland R-8 drum machine and S50 keyboard. He used to have a TR-707, a Juno 60 and an Oberheim Matrix 12. Back in the day, he used an Atari 1040ST computer running the original Steinberg Pro 24III MIDI sequencer. Great stuff!

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:grin: It’s definitely ironic.

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Hi all,

iOS devices are often better optimized for real-time audio requirements, compared to Android hardware. This is the main reason that Cubasis on older iOS devices often outperforms Cubasis on brand-new Android hardware, which is also the case with other real-time audio apps. Unfortunately, it is impossible to optimize Cubasis for specific devices or manufactures, due to the sheer number of devices and Android modifications.

Best wishes,
Lars

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@LSlowak Thanks for that additional info, Lars.

This thread has, indeed, been interesting and informative.

Thanks, All,

John

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@fixitmania53 Our dinosaur history. :sweat_smile:

It still blows my mind to realize that TV was invented around the time of my birth, to getting into Dad’s car and waiting for the tubes in the car’s AM radio to warm up. Dad didn’t have a calculator, he carried a slide rule to work. Who even knows how to use a slide rule today?

Computers were water-cooled and took up an entire room, this was decades before ANY personal computers of any sort existed. How many here can imagine walking around without a phone in their pocket until in their 40s?

From almost no technology to today, our lives are drastically different. Resting in bed typing, communicating with people thousands of miles away. :keyboard: Oh my, how spoiled I’ve become. :grinning:

John

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