German "Tenorhorn" - in Eb?


I am from Austria, so when I choose the (German language) instrument “Tenorhorn” I expect to get this instrument:
[u][/u] (Im sorry this article is not available in English…)

The Tenorhorn is written in Bb, has a treble clef and transposes an additional octave. Quite similar to “Bariton”, where it works perfectly.

The current “Tenorhorn” is in Eb, so this is probably either a bug or a different instrument, but I could not find some kind of Tenorhorn in Eb.

Can somebody please enlighten me what’s going on?
(Of yourse I could add a second Bariton and change the name, but I’m curios. g)

England calls the Eb Horn “Tenor” while most other countries call it Alto Horn. England calls the Bb Tenor Horn a Baritone Horn.

Oh, now I see. Thanks, Craig!

As the Tenorhorn transposes the same way as a tenor saxophone you might try to use a tenorsax staff, rename it manually and assign a brass patch in the Halion player manually.

Thanks, MM, I have already gone with Baritone as a base for my changes :wink:

Yeah, I just came across this anomaly, too. This is a mistake in the translation that should be fixed to avoid confusion in future. Additionally, there are two instruments called “Bariton” and one called “Baritonhorn” that all appear to be transposing (B-flat treble clef) while actually there is a (subtle) difference between a Tenorhorn and a Bariton(horn), and the latter is non-transposing and notated with bass clef. The closest equivalent and possible replacement for the German Bariton in Dorico would be Euphonium and for the Tenorhorn you can choose any of the three “Bariton(horn)” options in the brass instruments category (all of which you’d have to rename manually, of course).

Even if this thread is a bit dated, I want to add a comment to it.

For me, using Baritone or Baritone Horn doesn’t completely solve the problem, because they transpose the wrong way in the full score. One of the two Baritone Horns (as well as the “Baritone”, I think) use bass clef in the full score, while the other Baritone Horn uses treble clef, but shows all notes an octave too low (this is where they sound - but Tenorhorn is usually written in the octave-transposition for better readability even if the full score is in C).

I ended up using a Bass trumpet in Bb, renaming it to Tenorhorn and using appropriate patches in Halion. This way, I have readable full scores AND parts the way I am used to.

However, I really hope that the next major version has support for modifying instrument settings or creating new instruments…

Actually, I just found out that the “Bariton(horn)” instruments are not transposing the same; there are two “Bariton” and two “Baritonhorn” instruments, the first of the latter two actually transposes in B-flat treble clef and is also actually named “Tenorhorn” in the score automatically.

So, as you can see in the attached images, the first instrument named “Bariton” is using the “Aah To Ooh Choir” patch and is basically a singer, non-transposing in bass clef.
The second “Bariton” is transposing in B-flat treble clef and using the HornCombi patch (so, basically a Tenorhorn in German).
The third option in the instrument selection dialog, which is the first “Baritonhorn” instrument is also transposing in B-flat treble clef and using the HornCombi patch, but also named “Tenorhorn” in the score.
The fourth instrument (second “Baritonhorn”) is transposing in E-flat treble clef, which is probably one of these strange anglo-american bugles but translated incorrectly.


Hm, I can’t really duplicate what you describe though I’m using Dorico in German just like you:

I basically see the same list of search results as in your “instruments.png” image, but at my end …

  • the first “Bariton” is the brass isntrument in bass clef, non-transposing.
  • the second “Bariton” is the singer
  • the third instrument (the first “Baritonhorn”) is somehing completely different than our well-known “Tenorhorn” stranger in Eb: this instrument is transposing from G natural! So congratulations, we have found yet another beast in the cave. :smiley:
  • the fourth instrument (the second “Baritonhorn”) is also called “Baritonhorn” and is in Bb.

I think the whole problem is based on the assumption, that there is an equivalant for every instrument in every language. Some languages have more names for one instrument and sometimes the same name is used different in different languages, e.g. the Bariton(e).
I hope there will be added an instrument editor soon. Than we don’t have to bother about missing instruments, wrong transpositions or instruments playing in the wrong octave any longer and can adjust the instrument list to our needs.

You’re right, I was wrong with the transposition. The transposition in G is (or was) actually common for a bugle (, and as a matter of fact, if I enter “bugle” in the search field, that “Baritonhorn” comes up.

But it’s strange that you get different instrument names and sort order. :question: Or perhaps I’ve changed an instrument name some time ago and saved it as default and have forgotten about it?


But then again, when I search for “Bugle”, even when Dorico is set to German with German instrument names the first thing I would expect to show up is a “Bugle” like this: Bugle - Wikipedia

I’m reviving this thread to bring it back into the minds because there have been some changes but not everything has been solved yet. I see that in Dorico 5 the “Tenorhorn” has vanished completely (i. e. nothing comes up in the instrument search) and there is now an “Althorn”.

However, there is still a “Baritonhorn” that is transposed in G (i. e. the “Bugle”) and the “Bariton” that is there in Dorico produces what is effectively a “Tenorhorn” in German. At least it now also shows the parent category for each instrument, so that, if you type “Bariton” into the search field, you see that one Bariton belongs to the singer category and the other belongs to the brass instrument category.

But ideally, in German, typing “Bariton” should either link to the Euphonium or be a separate instrument that creates a non-transposing staff in bass clef. And the current “Bariton” that is in the brass category should be translated to “Tenorhorn”.

We do have an instrument called “Tenorhorn” in German, which appears as “Baritone Horn” in English. The brass instrument that appears as “Bariton” in German is essentially the same instrument.

If you’re sure that the name “Bariton” should never be associated with what we call in English a Baritone Horn, then we can prevent that from appearing. I’m not sure how best to handle the instrument called Euphonium in English appearing as “Bariton” in German. We show both “Euphonium” and “Tenortuba” for this instrument in German. Would it be preferable, say, to show “Bariton” instead of “Tenortuba”?

I’m not getting any results if I type “tenorhorn” into the search field:

If I’m typing “bariton” and select the respective brass instrument that comes up, I’m getting a transposed staff in Bb, basically what we would associate with a “Tenorhorn”. So, the term “Bariton” is misleading in this situation and should be translated to “Tenorhorn”. And yes, the English “Baritone Horn” should probably never be associated with the German name “Bariton” (I invite @Estigy and other German speaking members to chime in if I’m wrong with this). If I switch Dorico’s instrument language to English I’m getting “Baritone Bugle” for the “Baritonhorn”. The German Wikipedia article says that the English baritone horn is a member of the Saxhorn family and similar in bore to the German “Tenorhorn”, so that’s probably what it should translate to. In the odd case that a German speaker writes something for British brass band, they could rename the instrument accordingly.

The term “Tenortuba” is fairly uncommon here. I think Germans would associate this with a Wagnertuba in Bb. So, yes, I guess “Bariton” instead of “Tenortuba” for a non-transposing instrument in bass clef with a Euphonium sound would be preferable. I guess the term “Euphonium” can stay since it’s becoming more common in the German speaking area, too.

So, to recapitulate:
en: “Baritone” = de: “Tenorhorn”
en: “Tenor Tuba” = de: “Bariton”
en: “Euphonium” = de: “Euphonium”

I’m not sure how to translate Baritone Bugle, though (which currently translates to “Baritonhorn”), since it’s really uncommon in the German speaking world. Perhaps just leave it at its English name?