German "Tenorhorn" - in Eb?

Hi.

I am from Austria, so when I choose the (German language) instrument “Tenorhorn” I expect to get this instrument:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenorhorn (Im sorry this article is not available in English…)

The Tenorhorn is written in Bb, has a treble clef and transposes an additional octave. Quite similar to “Bariton”, where it works perfectly.

The current “Tenorhorn” is in Eb, so this is probably either a bug or a different instrument, but I could not find some kind of Tenorhorn in Eb.

Can somebody please enlighten me what’s going on?
(Of yourse I could add a second Bariton and change the name, but I’m curios. g)

England calls the Eb Horn “Tenor” while most other countries call it Alto Horn. England calls the Bb Tenor Horn a Baritone Horn.

Oh, now I see. Thanks, Craig!

As the Tenorhorn transposes the same way as a tenor saxophone you might try to use a tenorsax staff, rename it manually and assign a brass patch in the Halion player manually.

Thanks, MM, I have already gone with Baritone as a base for my changes :wink:

Yeah, I just came across this anomaly, too. This is a mistake in the translation that should be fixed to avoid confusion in future. Additionally, there are two instruments called “Bariton” and one called “Baritonhorn” that all appear to be transposing (B-flat treble clef) while actually there is a (subtle) difference between a Tenorhorn and a Bariton(horn), and the latter is non-transposing and notated with bass clef. The closest equivalent and possible replacement for the German Bariton in Dorico would be Euphonium and for the Tenorhorn you can choose any of the three “Bariton(horn)” options in the brass instruments category (all of which you’d have to rename manually, of course).

Even if this thread is a bit dated, I want to add a comment to it.

For me, using Baritone or Baritone Horn doesn’t completely solve the problem, because they transpose the wrong way in the full score. One of the two Baritone Horns (as well as the “Baritone”, I think) use bass clef in the full score, while the other Baritone Horn uses treble clef, but shows all notes an octave too low (this is where they sound - but Tenorhorn is usually written in the octave-transposition for better readability even if the full score is in C).

I ended up using a Bass trumpet in Bb, renaming it to Tenorhorn and using appropriate patches in Halion. This way, I have readable full scores AND parts the way I am used to.

However, I really hope that the next major version has support for modifying instrument settings or creating new instruments…

Actually, I just found out that the “Bariton(horn)” instruments are not transposing the same; there are two “Bariton” and two “Baritonhorn” instruments, the first of the latter two actually transposes in B-flat treble clef and is also actually named “Tenorhorn” in the score automatically.

So, as you can see in the attached images, the first instrument named “Bariton” is using the “Aah To Ooh Choir” patch and is basically a singer, non-transposing in bass clef.
The second “Bariton” is transposing in B-flat treble clef and using the HornCombi patch (so, basically a Tenorhorn in German).
The third option in the instrument selection dialog, which is the first “Baritonhorn” instrument is also transposing in B-flat treble clef and using the HornCombi patch, but also named “Tenorhorn” in the score.
The fourth instrument (second “Baritonhorn”) is transposing in E-flat treble clef, which is probably one of these strange anglo-american bugles but translated incorrectly.


baritones.png

Hm, I can’t really duplicate what you describe though I’m using Dorico in German just like you:

I basically see the same list of search results as in your “instruments.png” image, but at my end …

  • the first “Bariton” is the brass isntrument in bass clef, non-transposing.
  • the second “Bariton” is the singer
  • the third instrument (the first “Baritonhorn”) is somehing completely different than our well-known “Tenorhorn” stranger in Eb: this instrument is transposing from G natural! So congratulations, we have found yet another beast in the cave. :smiley:
  • the fourth instrument (the second “Baritonhorn”) is also called “Baritonhorn” and is in Bb.

I think the whole problem is based on the assumption, that there is an equivalant for every instrument in every language. Some languages have more names for one instrument and sometimes the same name is used different in different languages, e.g. the Bariton(e).
I hope there will be added an instrument editor soon. Than we don’t have to bother about missing instruments, wrong transpositions or instruments playing in the wrong octave any longer and can adjust the instrument list to our needs.

You’re right, I was wrong with the transposition. The transposition in G is (or was) actually common for a bugle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_and_bugle_corps_(modern)#Brass), and as a matter of fact, if I enter “bugle” in the search field, that “Baritonhorn” comes up.

But it’s strange that you get different instrument names and sort order. :question: Or perhaps I’ve changed an instrument name some time ago and saved it as default and have forgotten about it?

Interesting…

But then again, when I search for “Bugle”, even when Dorico is set to German with German instrument names the first thing I would expect to show up is a “Bugle” like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugle