Group editing fails when editing lanes

I have posted about this before on older CB versions. I still think this is a major slowdown when working with various takes in a folder track.
When recording for instance a drum kit with 12 tracks (but also a e guitar with 3 microphones and a di or a string section with 10 tracks) I do a couple of takes which will create lanes on the tracks in a folder track. I want to be able to quickly make an comp of the various takes with the lane edit function. I open up one o f the tracks lanes en perform the edits. I want to make sure all tracks get the same edits so I have group editing enabled. However, when I do this it fails. As soon as you use the comp tool synchronization is lost. The only way to make it work is to ensure that all tracks in the folder have their lanes expanded.

  1. expanding lanes (and closing lanes) is very time consuming if you have for instance 10 tracks
  2. it also completely clutters your workspace!
    Yes I know that snap to zero crossing must be tuned of and I have to make sure that the tracks in a folder must be exactly in sync.
    Steinberg please please fix this. It will speed up my workflow so much! (and stop my clients saying that this is much easier in Protools )

Or is there a better way of making quick edits on multiple tracks amongst various takes?

I work on Cubase 12.040 Mac trashcan, Mojave, Apogee Sympohone II

If you put all your drum tracks in a folder, it should be possible to create a macro:

  1. to select all tracks of a selected folder
  2. and open the lanes of these selected tracks

But I can only imagine how much space this takes up on the screen.

Because of this I avoid comping and basically duplicate tracks before recording, so that after recording, I just move the takes I want to keep on the duplicated tracks and mute them. If I don’t choose which take I would like to keep during recording, I can go back afterwards and mute/unmute those I need. I also found, this is way faster, easier and less problematic and works fine on every DAW.

I saw a video about ProTools where exactly this was possible. Before I always wondered what was the big deal with Playlists in ProTools. Well, this is one of the things it can do.

Hi TJ99, thx for your response! Well yess, the clutter of the display makes this unworkable.

I am surprised that there are so little people list this as a big issue. For me it is!
Steinberg, is this how it should work?

Sorry I gave a false solution initially and delete the post.

So, if I could summarize what you want, it would be, the ability to only have one or two tracks lane expanded, and the rest closed, but still have the edits mirror properly to the other tracks that have lanes closed?

edit

I just watched a couple pro tools videos on Playlist/Group comping drums, I’m failing to see major differences, so I’m struggling to deduce what you’re getting at.

Also, I don’t think I’m losing sync by using the comp tool… Can you make a screen capture video of what you’re doing please?

edit

Obviously this is less tracks, but, just look at the kick and snare, or only the overheads?
drumedit

  • In folder with group activated
  • I am shift selecting the tracks, ctrl+alt+L open lanes
  • comping with comp tool
  • Selecting all events,
  • events to part
  • and then if you wan to break the part apart, you can use disolve part.

I have been at it for sooo long… I have given up though.

But, I will get back to you with a workaround… I have no time for a long explaination now, but the trick is to NOT use the Comp Tool to split the files (within the open lanes)… If you use the good old Scissors Tool (or Alt + left click) to split the files, and then select your bits (with the Comp Tool)… All the tracks included in that Folder/Edit Group will choose the same lane selections.
When you get the hang of it (and trust it) you don’t have to open the lanes across all the multitracks.

That said… for multitracking drums I tend to use the Track Versions instead.

That’s the best I could do in this short time… I have to go… Later :wink:

@Bob_Miller

I’d really like to deduce what the differences are and what it is you are after so I can help submit a proper FR that will get attention and get implemented - I have a good record. I’m also 1000% for improving any editing workflow.

Hi Maggot, thx for taking time to look into this!
A great help I got out of your response is that I now made a key command for expanding and closing lanes. Stupid I did not think of that earlier.

The point however is group editing only works with all lanes expanded on all tracks in the group. If you do an edit with the lanes of only one of the tracks in the group expanded, group editing fails.

This clutters the workspace unnecessary and slows down the workflow.

Hi Carvin, thx for your input. Yes I have noticed that not using the comp tool and only cut in the main track works. It is however a difficult work around and nullifies all benefits of the editing tools.

Moreover, it gives me the impression it should be an easy fix for Steinberg to also maintain locked group editing with the comp tool!

I got you, I will make a FR and credit you/link to this thread, if that’s alright with you.

Something else that might help you until this gets implemented if it does, is a few zoom key commands/macros.

Zoom Commands

Zoom - Zoom Tracks Minimum

Zoom - Zoom Tracks Exclusive (Selected Tracks)

Zoom - Zoom Tracks In (selected tracks)
Zoom - Zoom Tracks out (selected tracks)

Zoom - Undo Zoom

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So my request is that group editing is rock solid and all tracks in the group maintain in sync when edits are done on one track with only that tracks lanes exposed.

I work daily with folder tracks with multiple tracks and multiple takes that need to to stay in sync when editing. Examples are multi mic recording of guitar or bass, a string ensemble that does overdubs on a recording, drum recording etc.

The necessity to first expand the lanes of all tracks in the group slows down, clutters workspace, and creates a risk of losing sync! And apart form this you also need to make sure that “snap to zero crossing” is deactivated or you lose sync with any edit you do.

So my conclusion is that group editing is not user friendly and the risk of losing sync are too high.

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For now,

use Zoom Tracks Minimum, and then select the track+lanes you want, and use Zoom Tracks In/Out or Zoom Exclusive.

Then use Undo Zoom a few times to get back to your previous zoom state.

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I’ve got something else that will speed you up! give me a sec… do you know how to use PLE?

Cubase has something called Project Logical Editor, and combined with key command macros, you can accomplish a lot of things in one key stroke.

In this video, I’ve created a command to close all lanes in the project so that the tracks don’t have to be selected
ple1

In this video, I instructed the PLE to only toggle lanes that have a track name that contains ‘Drm’
ple2
Drm is a tag I use at the beginning of all my drum tracks so that I can target them with PLEs. DrmKikIn, DrmSnrTop, etc.

With this PLE, i’m instructing it to select only the tracks that have Kik and Snr
ple3

For this to work you will need ‘Track Selection Follows Event Selection’ enabled
You could thread a PLE Macro combo that goes something like,

PLE - Open Drum Lanes
Zoom - Zoom Tracks Minimum
PLE - Select DrmKik and DrmSnr
Select - Select All On Tracks
Zoom - Zoom Tracks In
Zoom - Zoom Tracks In
Zoom - Zoom Tracks In
Zoom - Zoom Tracks In
Zoom - Zoom Tracks In

This will essentially result in A.) Drum Lanes being opened B.) All tracks zoom minimum except for Kik and Snr which will be zoomed in. All this can be bound to one key command stroke.

You could also add a visibility command to this so the everything in the project but the Drums tracks get hidden while you work on drums. Then ‘Undo Visibility’.

Hi Maggot, thx for all your work! Very interesting. I will look into this, have not used this function before.

However I still think my life would be a lot easier if the group editing function would “just work” :slight_smile:
Also when doing edits in a folder it is often helpful if you van look at other instruments tracks to lock timing for instance. This is difficult if you have to expand the lanes of all tracks in the group.

I definitely don’t disagree! I will work on a thorough feature request later.

The Project Logical Editor is one of the best things about Cubase, that imo, makes it the best DAW. You can accomplish just about anything if you put your mind to it… It is a bit of a journey though. Another great example of what PLE can do and a lot of people use it for - you can get it to colour all your tracks based on their track names.

Working with The Project Logical Editor | Cubase Q&A with Greg Ondo - YouTube

Editing Events by Name with the Project Logical Editor | Cubase Q&A with Greg Ondo - YouTube

There’s also the Logical Editor which is just for MIDI.

Let me know how it goes! take care

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Hi Cubase friends, a bump up here for this thread . Please vote for this feature asking Steinberg to make Group editing rock solid and easier by not having to expand all lanes of all tracks in the group to enable using the comp tool!
In addition I also would like Cubase to automatically turn of “snap to zero crossing” when editing in group editing mode as it directly makes all the tracks go out of sync and group editing fails.

Please Steinberg, improve group editing in the next version !

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