Guitar transposition

Hello,

Is it possible to edit the transposition/concert parameters of the instrument Guitar? Concert pitch is the same as Transpose pitch.

Thank you,
Carlos

What exactly do you want to change? As far as I’m aware, Guitar IS exactly the same in transposing and concert pitch: it sounds an octave lower than notated.

Hello Pianoleo,

Thank you for replying. That is exactly what I expect to see. When I am teaching a jazz arrangement class and I show the concert pitch to the students, they need to see what you just wrote, concert pitch should be the same note and octave as the piano or flute and transposed part should be notated an octave higher than the concert pitch.

I’m afraid we disagree there.
Maybe someone will have a solution though.

What do you mean, disagree? What it is there to disagree? Do you teach Jazz Arrangement class?

Just as a Celeste is never written at “concert” pitch a Guitar is never written at “concert” pitch, even in a Score in C.

Pianoleo,

I appreciate very much your sharing with me the technical aspects of Dorico but refuse to put under your judgment my Jazz Studies bachelors degree and my master in Jazz Arranging and Composition at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. That is not something I would discuss in a software public forum as this is.

If you do not know how to do in Dorico what I have kindly asked, just say that but don’t go to be smarter than the person who is trying to do something with the software.

Your defensive answer made me to think that you either do not know how to accomplish my request, or Dorico is not able to do it. I have being doing it in Finale and Sibelius for more than twenty years. I am sixty one years old.

Best regards,
Carlos

Sorry Carlos; I didn’t mean to offend or upset. I was genuinely puzzled by your initial statement that “Concert pitch is the same as Transpose pitch”. I agree with that, Dorico seems to agree with that, and you SAID that in your opening post.

Hello Pianoleo,

I take your answer as not offensive one. But you keep not answering the question.

Anybody else could answer my question: is it possible to edit the transposition parameters in Dorico? Is any plans for it?

I told you a while ago that somebody else might have a solution. To clarify: I don’t have a solution - sorry!

… a real way of waisting time and energy!

By way of a workaround, you could always have two layouts, one transposing and one concert, with a third “master” layout. Two guitar parts, one which only shows in the transposing score and one which only shows in the concert score. They both show in the master score and you copy and paste between the two as necessary, making sure that you shunt everything in the concert score down an octave.

Carlos,

no, you cannot yet edit Instruments in Dorico, which is what you had to do in Sibelius, which is what you should have articulated in your vague first post instead of in an all-too-common-for-you post with an appeal to authority with a side of vitriol.

Please keep it civil on here.

I think that your are pathetic! No need to talk to you. You should not be allowed to write in this forum. In fact I think you should be out kick out. You are bad for the Dorico Team and for the forum. I hope some one with authority reads this complete post and cancel your membership. You are bad news for Dorico! They do not need people so angry like you. With such a low class way of talking. Please, do not ever talk to me in this forum.

I think the difficulty here is more in the way the HALion player handles the octave of the instrument (much the same situation as the way it handles a vocal Tenor). You can change the octave in the HALion player, but I’m not sure there is a way to create a (notated) guitar part to reflect that altered transposition.

EDIT: I believe there is also an Expression map to transpose an instrument by an octave.

Perhaps I’m overlooking something, but what I’m seeing is that instruments which normally transpose by an octave (either up or down) display the same regardless of whether your Layout is set to transposing or not. I haven’t tried every instrument, but I verified this for guitar, bass, double bass, and piccolo.

Speaking as a composer I cannot see the need to ever display piccolo or double bass at concert. And while I am not a piccolo player, I cannot imagine the need to ever display a score at concert. However, I can see that this would be useful for an educator/teacher.

So while it might have been better expressed, guitarlos’s original request seems like a reasonable thing to ask for. Likely this would require an additional option on the Layout:

Transposing Layout?

  • Concert
  • Transpose all except octave transposing instruments
  • Transpose all instruments

We don’t have any plans to display octave transposing instruments at their sounding pitch in a concert score, as it’s certainly unconventional. However, I do recognise the potential use case here, so we’ll think about it for the future.

Indeed, that could be useful for teaching in the same way as notes color when “out-of-range” etc…

As a side remark on this, in the latest version of Finale you can choose whether to keep octave transposition or not when displaying concert pitch. So both ways are possible.