Has the way key commands and sequences are implemented changed in 3.5?

Hi all.

For instance, in 3 I can type [num+6], [.] then place a dotted crotchet. In 3.5 I must type [num+6], then click where I want the crotchet, then press escape, then press [.] to get the note to be extended by half. After the first note, the next note can be a dotted crotchet without the extra step.

Has something fundamental changed in the way Dorico operates which would cause this to happen?

I also note that the select function does not cancel with escape, and am wondering if I can make it so.

Thanks for any help. For now I’m reverting to version 3 because it’s slowed me down by a lot.

It sounds like you might have inadvertently changed some of the preferences for note input in Dorico 3.5. Go to the Note Input and Editing page of Preferences and make sure that ‘Specify accidental, rhythm dot and articulations’ is set to ‘Before inputting note’.

It was set as you advised. I changed it to “after”, then “before” again to see if that triggered something. Sadly, no change.

There does seem to be some change between Dorico 3’s behaviour and Dorico 3.5’s behaviour (and yes, I’ve double-checked my preferences).
If you really must click notes in with the mouse, you can get the old behaviour back by first double-clicking somewhere on a stave to invoke the caret.
If you’ve got as far as learning the shortcuts for durations, it’s only one tiny step further to then use the caret and type pitches, rather than resorting to the mouse.

double-clicking somewhere on a stave to invoke the caret

This actually doesn’t invoke the old behaviour for me. I still have to put one note in as normal length before I can input a dotted note (or change the first to dotted).

Just bumping this in the hope that it might be a fixable bug.

Are you doing something different to what I suggested, or is there a difference between what your computer’s doing and what my computers are doing?

is there a difference

Well yes but actually no.

There was yesterday. I couldn’t double-click to get caret and then press [6], [.] for dotted. Today I can for some reason. Maybe reboot did something.

I still don’t get access to dotted rhythm without double-clicking to get the caret, which I was able to do before. I guess what I’m asking is whether this change is intentional, given that the problem seems to have halved itself overnight and may in fact be inconsistent. I can’t reboot again right now to check. Quick edit: especially since I can type [6] then click the dotted rhythm icon to do what I want without having to get the caret first. Do you see what I mean?

Thanks for the help.

From the version history document:

Note input toolbox. With the addition of pitch before duration input, the note input toolbox in Write mode has been reorganized. The four tools that are always enabled (Select, Pitch Before Duration, Chord Input, Insert) are now shown at the top of the panel. The remaining eight tools in the toolbox, and the note duration, accidental and articulation buttons in the notes panel, are now only enabled if activating them would make sense given the current state (for example, whether the caret is visible, whether there is a selection, whether mouse input is enabled).

I suppose this is what you encounter?

only enabled if activating them would make sense given the current state

This is what I’m contesting :slight_smile:

I think it makes sense to have a fully-registered duration during Duration Before Pitch note entry.

I’ve attached my current input preference settings.

The version history doc says

Normally, all properties of the note – accidental, articulation, rhythm dot – must be chosen before it is committed to the score, whether it is committed by specifying the pitch (in duration before pitch) or the duration (in pitch before duration).

This means that during Duration Before Pitch note input, I should be choosing the dotted rhythm before input. This is possible with the mouse, but not with the keyboard.

Can anyone on the dev team confirm that this inconsistency is intended behaviour? If it is, I’d like to request an option to change it in preferences!

The manual states that in order to start note input, you must either select a note or staff where you want to input notes and type Shift-N (there’s a note about typing Return/Enter), or double-click the staff.

Why would you expect steps 2-7 to work correctly if you skip step 1?

The linked manual relates to 3.0.10, but the 2.2.20 page is basically identical.

So it shouldn’t be possible to type any notes in any way until you invoke the caret.

That means the behaviour is still inconsistent and my point stands. Something about the behaviour in 3.5 is wrong, whether that’s a bug in duration before pitch input, or an incompletely patched input bug from previous versions.

I note a change if you try to key in a duration and an articulation without the caret. In previous versions it just wouldn’t have worked (yes, I’ve checked), whereas now there’s an error dialog too.

Yup, I note this error dialogue too. Interesting find.

Firstly, oggyb, please don’t bump threads, however much you might be waiting for a solution. I don’t always have time to dig in to every thread at every moment of every day, but you can rest assured that I keep close (literal) tabs on problems that don’t yet have a solution, and I will come to them when I have time.

Please let me make sure that I understand the problem exactly. You want to input the note with your mouse, but you are using the keyboard to specify the note duration. You have ‘Enable note input with the mouse’ activated/checked on the Note Input and Editing page of Preferences.

In Dorico 3.1, I do the following:

  1. Start a new project based on the Piano template, which takes me to Write mode.
  2. I type 6. The quarter note in the notes panel is illuminated. When I move my mouse pointer over the score, I see a shadow note.
  3. I type .. The rhythm dot in the notes toolbox is illuminated.
  4. I click in the right-hand staff: a note of a dotted quarter in duration is input.

In Dorico 3.5, I do the same steps, and at step 3, the rhythm dot is not illuminated, and at step 4, an undotted quarter note is added.

The reason for this is that Dorico 3.5 will only allow you to set a rhythm dot if you have a selection, or the caret is visible, which it is not yet. We should be able to relax that restriction, since in general we don’t want you to be able to change settings in the notes toolbox or the note input panel if they don’t make sense, but we’ve introduced a new restriction here that we didn’t intend.

please don’t bump threads

Got it, my bad. Thanks for the link to the rules: I won’t do it again.

You have understood the problem exactly. :+1::+1: