Help needed with possibly corrupt file with independent time signatures

The attached file, which is set up in Dorico but with everything pasted in from an xml import from Finale, has some really strange things going on. The original file is 946 bars long.

  1. The bar numbers are off +1. The system track holds the truth.
  2. The pick up bar does not group the rests correctly for Fl, Cl and Fag

I tried to solve this, but eventually I found that if I delete bars the problem is gone. If I then undo, the problem stays gone, but if I then save and open the file again – problem back.

After a process of trial and error I have found that the problem resides in b. 687, which is the penultimate bar in the attached test file:

If the last bar is deleted, you will see that the barlines go crazy:

Maybe this is a clue. I don’t know.
I have also found that if I delete the 12/8 from Flauto I, the problem goes away. But no matter what I try it comes back – I have even tried to save the file with the 12/8 deleted, opened it again, copied the 12/8 to Fl. I, all fine, saved, opened – problem back. The section that starts here has independent time signatures, and I use the method outlined in Florian’s article on Scoring Notes.

I am lost. Ideas? Suggestions?


test.dorico (519.3 KB)

I have experimented with your file.
To revert the bars which are 12/8 to 4/4 (with normal grouping of notes), which is the time signature in the preceding bars, I managed to do that simply by deleting all the signposts in bars 687 and 688. The barline at the end of the system then stayed the same as it should be and the bar numbers displayed at the top left of each system became correct.
A quicker way of doing that would be to click in the 3rd-last bar (the one before the 12/8) and type shift-b, -3, enter. This will delete the last 3 bars, including the one you suspect of containing the problem. Then click in what is now the last bar and type shift-b, 3, enter to replace those 3 bars with fresh new ones.
As as it is now closer to being a “clean slate” than it was before, try manually re-inputting the 12/8 time signature (rather than copying it from another staff) and see if it behaves as it should.
Good luck!

Thank you,

I deleted all the signposts, added shift-m 12/8,8 and a hidden 4/4 to Flauto I, all fine. Save, close, reload – the problem appears again.

I also tried deleting and adding bars as you describe above, same result.

Further testing shows that as soon as I add any independent time signature to Flauto I, the problem comes back after saving and reopening.

The same does not happen if I add it to Flauto II. So the culprit seems to be Flauto I.

I’m not sure if this will help to solve any of the problems you’re experiencing, but when I entered the 12/8 time signature using shift-m 12/8,8e the 12/8 bar is numbered in the System Track as 687, and the grouping appears to be 3+3+3+3. When I entered the 12/8 bar using what you mentioned (shift-m 12/8,8), it and the preceding bar are both numbered as 686.

slask.dorico (463.0 KB)
Ah, interesting – that does give a slightly different result. No difference on saving and reloading though. In the new minimal example attached here I used 12/8,8e, but as you can see it did not help. The part also shows an anomaly: here the system track does not show any bar numbers at all.

In the attached file I experimented with adding a third flute and testing if the position of the staff would matter. Actually it is only adding of the time signature on the top staff that shows the problem in the score. If I add it to lower systems the score will stay OK but the part will change.

Sorry. My last suggestion appears to just make it a normal 12/8 bar.
I’ve run out of other things to try at the moment.

Adding a new flow and trying the same there = same result.
Trying the same in a brand new file = same result.

new file test.dorico (777.8 KB)
OK, so now I have tested with a completely new file. The problem seems to come from using an independent time signature in a flow with a pick-up bar. If there is no pick-up bar, the problem does not appear. See attached, flow 1 with the upbeat, flow 2 without.

So what would be a decent workaround for this? If I add a barline in the middle of the full 3/4-bar in flow 1, I get the problem again. Adding bar number changes in all parts? Maybe. Next thing to try.

No problem, thank you for answering!

The way to go will be to add bar number changes where needed.
I revisited the page on Scoring Notes, and actually there is a mention of this in the comments. It would have saved me some time had I seen that…! But the wrong grouping of the notes in the pick-up bar is not mentioned there – the rests will have to be forced and added manually.

Time signatures have a property for whether rests should be grouped as for a pick up bar. Is that helpful here?

I’m afraid I’ve not had a chance to look at the project.

Thanks Leo, I tried that as well but it does not work.